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2000 Speed Triple 955i
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Good fix, I never would've thought of the sleeve being the wrong way round!
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Just got done feeling smug about remembering my high school physics to salvage the starter when I did this. :cautious:
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Used a torque wrench at 5ft-lbs on the long starter casing bolts and one snapped off inside the end cap. Don't think this was entirely my fault, that bolt was likely stretched. But still feel stupid for not using better judgment for torque on a bolt basically designed to waterproof the starter. Back to eBay scavenging for parts to fix another $100 mistake.馃様If any of you has a scrap starter in the US I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

The factory service manual has a process for removing the starter from the left side, without removing the crank and starter covers. On my '05 step #8 below does not work. The starter pinion is long enough and the camshaft oil feed pipe rigid enough that there is not enough room to move the starter back to clear the starter cover and remove, without damaging the starter pinion oil seal o-ring. It's tedious but easy enough to remove the starter from the front by removing the two covers, but the extra risk here is tearing the engine cover gaskets. Of course I did this as well, on a brand new gasket. 馃檮
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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
In case somebody has an idea about sourcing this weird starter case bolt. 4-5/8" bolt with 8mm head (5mm bolt?) and 3/4" of thread.
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Why don't you make one out of a steel rod and use a die at each end. You can even put thread lock on the side that will be your bolt head.
Still you can use stainless for corrosion protection.
An even simpler solution would be to use a threaded rod but I wonder whether the young's modulus will be enough given the efficient diameter will be smaller. Worth a try.
 

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The important thing is to evaluate the threading correctly to source the correct die. I would bet it's metric (iso).
 

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or a single
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 · (Edited)
Learned a bit about speedy starters. Bottomline - 2005-10 starters are #T1311119, and 2011-17 starters are #T1311114 (source: BikeBandit). Yes the later Triumph part number is lower. Both are OEM Denso units. 2005-10 starters are badged Triumph & Denso, the later ones appear to be unbadged. Both starters have 10 teeth and turn CCW looking into the pinion. The only difference between x19 and x14 part is the pinion diameter. The later starter has a 1.5mm wider pinion. EDIT: correction per @RampantParanoia the later starter pinion has 9 teeth and mates with idler gear T1221464 (14/64). All else - armature, brush plate, bolt pattern, case with permanent magnets, end caps, bearings are identical and interchangeable.
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2018-20 speedy use T1312016, don't know what this starter looks like.

Armatures and bearings - top 2005, bottom 2017
1609788751173.png 1609788781939.png
Brush plates - left 2005, right 2017
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Installation of starter armature and idler gear
1609788972187.png 1609789001226.png
Starter idler gear T1221104 14/71 (left old, right new)
1609790618279.png

In the end all I needed were replacement starter case bolts from eBay - thanks @DEcosse - which needed a dremel to lop off a few mm and a washer to replace the original flanged bolts. I had already purchased this 2017 starter on eBay in the hopes of getting a clean starter pinion, new brushes as well as new bolts. Didn't work out and don't need the new brushes or bolts so I now have a 2011-17 starter in excellent condition I'm going to list on ebay, DM me if interested.
1609790197761.png 1609790428835.png

With everything buttoned up and a few ounces of oil to top up, speedy turned over rapidly, no clacks, and started with fewer than 5 very rapid cranks - quicker and quieter start than I can remember in a long time. Total cost for starter idler gear, crank and starter case gaskets and oil - about $200 . Actual cost to cover self inflicted injuries and rabbit holes ~$350, still less than the cost of a sprag clutch kit. Learning more than I desired about Hinckley electricals and starter circuits - priceless! :cool: Happy 2021 all and thanks to @DEcosse @fredsprint and @RampantParanoia for advice and sources.
 

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Thanks for the follow up and happy covid free new year (just a wish, not writing the future).
How come the idler gear seams the same in spite the starter gear diameter is larger?
 

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2000 Speed Triple 955i
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2011-17 starters are #T1311114
Weird, my 1050 engine didn't come with a starter and I got very confused looking into starters some time ago. The one I picked up is marked T1311118, I can't find that part number against any bike on Fowlers and I can't remember what it was from. Could you post the pinion diameters?


Both starters have 10 teeth
The one you've posted a picture of the pinion end-on has 9 teeth :) Looking at Ricks Electrics they list 10 teeth for 05-10 and 9 teeth for 11+.


How come the idler gear seams the same in spite the starter gear diameter is larger?
I'm not sure it is Fred, Fowlers list the idler for 05-10 bikes as T1221104, 14/71 teeth and the idler for 11-15 bikes as T1221464, 14/64 teeth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
How come the idler gear seams the same in spite the starter gear diameter is larger?
Did not use the 2017 starter, went back to my '05 starter with new case bolts. So the idler gear is T1221104 (14/71) not T1221464 (14/64).

Weird, my 1050 engine didn't come with a starter and I got very confused looking into starters some time ago. The one I picked up is marked T1311118, I can't find that part number against any bike on Fowlers and I can't remember what it was from. Could you post the pinion diameters?
Triumph appears to have badged starter motors with a range of part numbers. For instance this one on eBay says T1318008 but per BikeBandit is a T1311114 starter. Next to it the badge from my OEM 2005 starter T1310605, which is a T1311119 BikeBandit/Triumph part.
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Could not find a cross ref so I stated the BikeBandit source. I did check the starter idler gear specified for speedy 2005-2017 and based on that and my own comparison between the '05 and '17 internals I believe the starter motors are identical 2005-10 and 2011-17. With the exception of the pinion diameter/teeth change in 2011 they are in fact identical 2005-17, and likely across other contemporary Triumph models.

The one you've posted a picture of the pinion end-on has 9 teeth :) Looking at Ricks Electrics they list 10 teeth for 05-10 and 9 teeth for 11+.
Thanks for the correction, I don't have calipers or a micrometer and clearly I can't count teeth. :cautious:
 

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With the exception of the pinion diameter/teeth change in 2011 they are in fact identical 2005-17, and likely across other contemporary Triumph models.
I think you're right here, the Denso part number starts 428000-#### for both and I'd wager the last four digits are purely the output shaft config while the motor internals remain the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Life got in the way and speedy finally got out on the road the first time yesterday, after this work. The good news - starts are very fast, reliable, quick and clack free. Looks like the sprag was undamaged. The other replaced, cleaned or recalibrated pieces - TPS, plugs, filter, ISCV, throttle cable slack, t-body vacuum - appear to be doing their jobs. Power was smooth and plentiful across the range without hiccups or dead spots. Throttle roll-on had none of the softness and rubber-band syndrome from last year.

The bad news - an inconsistent high idle. Appeared after the bike was warm. Did not happen every time, and couldn't fix it by turning the bars or forcing throttle closed - don't think it's cable related. When it happened idle stuck at 2-3kRPM and would not come down. When it did not idle was steady at 1250RPM. No relation to heat that I could tell since it happened at various stages of the ride. Went through a tank of gas and it also happened on the fresh tank of Summer 93 octane. Any ideas for a source of intermittent air leak?
 

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A long time ago there was this problem related to throttle body badly fitted to rubber boots on the first GTs but AFAIR it caused stalling rather than high idle.
Wondering whether a bad injector (that stuck opened from time to time or not closing completely) would cause that. Usually a stuck injector is causing a high O2 sensor voltage at idle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
A long time ago there was this problem related to throttle body badly fitted to rubber boots on the first GTs but AFAIR it caused stalling rather than high idle.
Wondering whether a bad injector (that stuck opened from time to time or not closing completely) would cause that. Usually a stuck injector is causing a high O2 sensor voltage at idle.
I've done this before and usually something sitting on the stack on top of the trumpets - t-body, airbox, lid, tank - is misaligned and gives it away. Also not sure why the unmetered air/high idle would be intermittent. Still, worth a check. I'll plan on hooking up TuneECU to check O2 sensor voltage too, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Removed the tank and airbox, couldn't see anything obvious that would leak air. All hoses were on and clamped tight. The MAP sensor had its tube connected, and the little rat's nest of vac tubes it connects to were secure. Air temp sensor has power. The SAI and ISCV are working. The TPS tested ok. Throttle cable slack was perfect with ~2mm of play before the throttle cam lifted from its stop. All the rubber including the airbox boots with the oil seal springs around them are pliable with no cracks. What I suspected (hoped) may have been the issue - a folded up piece of rubber in one of the t-body or air-box boots - was not it, with an uninterrupted surface all the way into each cylinder.
PXL_20210413_181426637.jpg PXL_20210413_180855468.jpg PXL_20210413_180850873.jpg PXL_20210413_180846574.jpg PXL_20210413_175814333.jpg PXL_20210413_175804397.jpg

About the only possibility for a leak that I could spot was the flange between the boots inside the airbox and the airbox surface. The glue holding this seam appears to have solidified and I can feel a bit of movement. If there's a leak here, looks like unfiltered air would enter the airbox clean side, but it would still be metered.
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Any other pathways for unmetered air to enter, raising the idle speed? No other start, power or smoothness issues, just the high idle at ~2.5kRPM.
 

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Hi surya. Do you also own the DealerTool software? This can display "Stepper motor steps" and throttle opening percentage with a few decimal places. I think these informations are not in the TuneECU interface, as it shows only whole numbers in throttle opening percentage. By finding out how many "steps" does the idle stepper motor have and comparing it to my bike (since we have the same model) we could mabye find out a difference (if there is any). My logic is - you either can have air leak, causing the engine to idle too high, or your stepper motor extends its arm too far, opening the throttle bodies too much, causing the same issue.

Another thing we could try is to measure the TPS voltage when your bike just sits at idle. If we both have calibrated the TPS duuring the ISCV procedure to be at 0,60v when stepper motor arm is fully retracted (cusing t bodies to close completly) ....then...I thing the percentage of the TPS (which measures the actual level of throttle bodies opening) should be similiar on both bikes. I am aware that factors as barometric pressure and other things could mabye impact this, making this process not very useful, bat we could try that.

This was my bike at idle, engine off, bofore repositioning my TPS sensor (so before I found out it gives 0,63v with closed throttle)
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Then I physicaly rotated the TPS to be at 0,60v during the 1st step of ISCV adjustment procedure, and throttle opening percentage finaly reached 0%
idle steps went from 429 to 183
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Not sure this is helpful at all, just thinking. If your bike would idle at +/- 200 idle steps and still havint 2500rpm I would say its an air leak.

But if we would see a very different value for the stepper motor, then it could be actualy the ECU "deciding" that it for some reason "needs" to push the throttle bodies so much so you have high idle.

Another thing we could do is to compare all the TuneECU values with each other, if we spot anything unusuall. (this would help me aswell, since I am not sure which sensors shoudl give what voltages as "normal" values)
 
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