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Discussion Starter #1
Right on schedule for its every 5-year electrical snit my '05 speedy refused to start this morning. Been noticing a no-start every 10 starts or so and chalked it up to a dirty starter relay, button or one of the switches in the starter circuit - kill, clutch, kick-stand, tipover. When this happened, turning the key off and back on or exercising the clutch resolved and it started.Today that became a 50% chance of not starting. The battery is ok at 13.6vDC. Swapped a bunch of relays - starter, fuel pump, ECU - no change. Jiggled wiring loom to the right of the fork/headstock (clamp removed) - no change. The one new issue today that has not gone away during the testing/swapping, the headlights are not coming on. Marker lights are on. Fuses ok and I've tried switching the headlight relay - no change.

Here is what I'm planning this weekend, let me know if I'm missing something obvious.
  • clean ground cables
  • clean and check battery to solenoid, solenoid to starter, R/R to battery, stator to R/R connections
  • clean starter, kill, clutch, side-stand switches
  • replace starter relay, clean ECU and fuel pump relays (got a source for hella relays?)
Electrical issues have a special way of frustrating, taunting and ruining plans :cautious:. Thanks for any advice.
 

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The one new issue today that has not gone away during the testing/swapping, the headlights are not coming on.
Almost certainly the key-switch harness, since you have neither headlights nor Ignition Power
(it could be Fuse 2,but much more likely to be the key-switch harness - specifically the white wire)
It would be either broken at the clamp or directly on the switch wiper plate
 

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p.s. Quick voltage check at fuses 2, 1 & 9 will confirm this
Turn on Key
Put your meter neg lead on the battery neg
With the Positive Lead, touch to the exposed metal tabs on top of these fuses
Fuse 2 - that is the 'supply' to the key-switch
Fuse 1 - the Ignition circuit (first port of call after the key-switch)
Fuse 9 - Headlight/starting circuit
And of course both tabs on each fuse should each read +12 (nominal)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks @DEcosse will do. Fuse #9 appears to be tail lights per my year manual. I'll try 2, 1 and 8.
735789
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Any tips on getting to the key-switch harness and actual wiper switch?
 

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yeah typo, should have said 8

Incidentally that table says nothing about the starter, but it DOES also supply the power to the starter solenoid
- the 'headlight/starter' relay, in it's un-energized state, supplies current to the headlights via Fuse 8 through the normally closed contact; when energized, the re-directs current from fuse 8 away from the headlights and to the starter solenoid;
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Almost certainly the key-switch harness, since you have neither headlights nor Ignition Power
(it could be Fuse 2,but much more likely to be the key-switch harness - specifically the white wire)
It would be either broken at the clamp or directly on the switch wiper plate
If the white wire were interrupted with the engine already started, would you expect it to die? In other words is the white wire energized for start circuit alone?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
1600700285701.png 1600700374097.png
Finally have off-street access to the bike. Any tips on ignition switch removal? Are the factory shear-off bolts the little ones marked with red arrow?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
p.s. Quick voltage check at fuses 2, 1 & 9 will confirm this
Turn on Key
Put your meter neg lead on the battery neg
With the Positive Lead, touch to the exposed metal tabs on top of these fuses
Fuse 2 - that is the 'supply' to the key-switch
Fuse 1 - the Ignition circuit (first port of call after the key-switch)
Fuse 9 - Headlight/starting circuit
And of course both tabs on each fuse should each read +12 (nominal)
@DEcosse tested fuses #1, #2 and #8 and all have +12vDC with key on. They do show voltage drops of ~0.15vDC between each other. with #2 clocking in closest to battery terminal voltage.

1600707724826.png 1600707747928.png 1600707772961.png

Fuses tested separately and they check out ok. Headlights still not working with key on, marker lights on. Does this eliminate the ignition switch/wires? Thanks.
 

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To check voltage at the fuses DO NOT REMOVE THEM - just touch the exposed metal tab on the top of the fuse with the fuse still in position - that way you can check both sides of the fuse with it still in circuit which will also validate the fuse is good.
If indeed you get voltage at both side of the fuse 8 then key-switch is good (so no need to remove it) and next potential problem in line would be the starter relay - you haven't been swapping relays around have you? That one MUST be a 5 pin relay - if you have a 4 pin in that position that is why lights won't work. Or the relay itself or the socket terminals are corroded.

If You get voltage on BOTH sides of Fuse 8 and the Starter Relay is good, then also check that Headlight Relay is ALSO a 5-pin - and good
And if that is good, then validate that the left bar-switch to main harness connector is good - firmly mated together and no terminals are burned

Can you clarify - does starter run, just no lights? Or is starter not working either?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
False alarm on the headlights, thank for the idiot check. :) Had indeed swapped relays in the dark and forgot about the 4 and 5-pin relays. Both starter and headlight had 4-pin relays plugged in. Swapped with fan and fuel-pump relays (these should be 4-pin correct?) and the lights work fine, high and low. Starter also currently working. So back to the original issue - starter button does not respond 50% of attempts. Is there a good source for Hella relays? Will clean the left bar-switch harness and starter button/kill switch next, other suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Found the first problem. Clutch switch was hanging on by a thread. Not sure about the best way to repair. Shoulda been a plug-in switch.
DSC_8824.JPG
 

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And there are more

Here's brand new one out of UK - GENUINE Triumph Motorcycles Daytona Sprint Tiger Clutch Switch Kit NEW | eBay
(shipping is $26 on top of $22 price, but at least it's new)

I can even give you source for the mating connector .............
3-Way Kit (available in black)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks @DEcosse will grab the first eBay switch. Did manage to get some solder into the spades and the switch is working for now. If it fails again before I get a replacement I'll short it. Easy enough to pop the switch out without removing the clutch lever or anything else, by pressing the tab on the underside.
DSC_8825.JPG

Cleaned the kill switch and start button and dielectric greased the contacts. Both look ok but a spider appeared to live inside the switch casing so not very weather proof.
DSC_8829.JPG DSC_8828.JPG DSC_8827.JPG

The tank is off and I don't want to trigger the MIL, so assuming the intermittent start issue is dealt with. Moving on to clean and inspect stator, R/R and ground connections to deal with the ~13.2vDC output at the terminals. Thanks for your help.
 
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