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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All-

I'm back on RAT. I was first here 8 years ago to buy my beautiful 04 Bonneville. Now I've returned as I had a starter kickback thats resulted in a broken starter idler gearshaft boss on both the crankcase side as well as the cover. If anyone can help out with any of the questions below I will owe you a life debt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fixxit/comments/6ej5r5/04_triumph_bonneville_how_screwed_am_i_took/

Here's what I know on my side:
1.) Found it it could have been prevented with a TTP safe start. (Didn't know this was a well known failure/problem until now)
2.) I'd be better of getting a whole used engine, followed by getting the lower half of a used engine, followed by machining the existing.
3.) I've tried going to Triumph Corporate as well as my local dealership for help. Triumph told me that its too old for a "good will" case, and the dealership doesn't want anything to do with a bike over 10 years old.

Here are my questions:
1.) Where can I buy a used 790 cc that will fit an 04? (eBay has not been helpful)
2.) If I can't find a 790, will a T100 fit?
3.) If I go the machining route, or at least try, does anyone know where I buy a used crankcase cover for an 04 that doesn't cost $400?

Thank you ahead of time. Pics of damage on the reddit link.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Forchetto-

Didn't expect a reply from you! I've been reading your responses to these issues for months now. In fact, when I was doing my preliminary research on this I was seeing your information everywhere anytime I googled it- so thank you!

After rereading all of that information- I think my best bet would just be a new engine and of course buy a TPP safe start. I don't have any of the pieces that broke off from the boss and I don't have the knowledge or contacts to go the machining route. That being said do you have any idea about:

Thanks again Forchetto!

1.) Where can I buy a used 790 cc that will fit an 04? (eBay has not been helpful)
2.) If I can't find a 790, will a T100 fit?
 

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Thanks Forchetto- Looks like I have some calling around to do this week. Never imagined it'd be this hard to find a scrap engine laying around. I appreciate the help. You should remember for every one of your post replies, there are easily 1,000 "lurkers" who find RAT through google and use the information you're throwing around so thanks again.
 

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Do you still have the bit of the boss that broke off? You can still make a repair using the TTP Safe Start to reinforce the boss if you can put a dab of JB Weld onto the sheared surfaces of the boss, then more on the Safe Start (inner and back surfaces). All you'll need is a new clutch cover (your Reddit article states it is also damaged) -
it's a helluva lot cheaper (and easier!) than a new engine!

When applying the JB Weld for the Safe Start remember: clean surfaces meticulously!
 

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I see your location; condolences on the recent troubles.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for dropping by H3CT1C.....I don't have those bits that broke off. When I took the cover off I was too busy swearing and I never would have thought that I could JB Weld the pieces back together. As it stands? The pieces were almost slivers.... I don't know that they could have been that useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Okay! Did some calling around everyone!

Found someone in the area who is gonna take a crack at machining the bike. Has a bunch of Triumphs, totally gets whats wrong with the bike, and his take is-"hell, why not take a stab at it before buying a new engine"

Ordered TPP part as well as found a used clutch cover from Canyon Motorcycles in California. Crossing my fingers now. I dragged a pic of the bike into this thread. It's crazy that something could go so catastrophically wrong just from starting the bike that it would "brick" something that is otherwise perfect. No accidents, no rust- just a well maintained meticulously cared for Bonniville that essentially became a paperweight.

Meanwhile, I've spent the last month on a Yamaha Zuma 125 and have actually had WAY too much fun on it.
 

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Yes of course you should try the repair first. Dont you have bike breakers where you live? We have a lot of these engines showing up at breakers after insurance write offs, not very pricey either.
 

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I would have thought the starter boss breaks off or cracks when shutting the engine off. My bike has always had the habit of kicking back just as it stops turning on shut off. This then kicks back on the starter bendix stressing it. I can hear the starter start to spin just for a second. Mine is new enough to have the second design bosses. But I noticed it doing that when brand new. It doesn't do it every time. What it is doing is coming up on compression then spinning the engine backward.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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I was just getting ready to order the "safe-start" kit for my 2015 bonneville, but checked my motor numbers and they are 674322. The TTP site states that the "safe-start " kit is available for twins from 2001-2016. If my engine has the improved idler boss, does it need the kit for more safety, and does the kit really fit over the improved idler boss?
 

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I was just getting ready to order the "safe-start" kit for my 2015 bonneville, but checked my motor numbers and they are 674322. The TTP site states that the "safe-start " kit is available for twins from 2001-2016. If my engine has the improved idler boss, does it need the kit for more safety, and does the kit really fit over the improved idler boss?
The old starter gear boss was just a cylindrical bit in the casting:




The newer bikes came with a couple of strengthening ribs that support the boss like buttresses:



As you can see from the 2nd photo, breakages can also occur with the new design although they're rarer. Here's the thread that one came from:

http://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-technical-talk/447738-2007-bonneville-starting-issue.html#post4972217

The photos used in the TTP instructions first show an older type of boss (fourth photo) and further down it changes to the newer type although I can't see how it fits over the ribs, perhaps there are two versions, but no indication in the website:

http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/pdf/Safe-Start%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
 

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Just for info. to add : Here is a picture of what the boss looks like before damage. I also added a picture of the part I made and fitted to add support to my bikes boss. It is a aluminum sleeve with a steel support ring fitted to go down firmly against the case. I used epoxy to adhere it but I made it a tight fit also.
Hopefully that will help someone make their own part or possibly repair a damaged one.
 

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Forchetto,

Thank you for the pictures, (and invaluable help, from your previous posts, for many questions I've had in the past).

I think I'll have to contact TTP to see if there is a kit that fits my bike.
 

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To clear up confusion.

The initial Safe Start design was just for the early 790 models without the reinforcing buttress wings on the idler gear boss.

Due to the breakages seen over the last few years of the re-designed idler gear boss of the post 790 models, we have redesigned the Safe Start so that now owners of the air cooled twins from all years 2001 -
2016 can have peace of mind and be protected from idler gear boss breakages.

Regards
 

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Due to the breakages seen over the last few years of the re-designed idler gear boss of the post 790 models, we have redesigned the Safe Start so that now owners of the air cooled twins from all years 2001 - 2016 can have peace of mind and be protected from idler gear boss breakages.
I wasn't aware that this was still a problem for later bikes nor that there were several breakages recorded. I did a quick search and couldn't find any. I understood the one above was a one off, is that not the case?
 

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PieMan,

Thanks for the confirmation that the "Safe Start" kit is available for the newer bikes.

Do you know if there are a two different models to order; one model for old bikes and another for newer bikes?

Or, does the "Safe Start" shown on TTP site, now fit ALL twins from 2001 to 2016?

thanks in advance
 
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