Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

61 - 79 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
I tried this but my sprag still fails.
Here's what I did:
- I ordered this: https://vod.ebay.com/vod/FetchOrderDetails?itemid=231589881645&transid=1709969938013&ul_noapp=true
- I removed all but one clip, took out the inside and put it in the old sprag (T1221105).
- Reinstalled the old sprag in the bike with the old gear.

Before I did that the sprag would turn in both directions by hand.
After it would only turn in one direction by hand.
However, it failed to start the bike with the nasty sprag crunching sound.

Did I do something wrong?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Not sure what you mean "removed all but one clip"
There are circlips on both sides of the part I bought. Actually mine had an extra one on one side. I left one on the bottom like in the triumph part.


Personally, think it is better to just replace the entire thing (and mark the TDC position)
How do you mean?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Owly that looks like it should fit. Why did you take it apart? Why didn't you just swap? Obviously the innards don't match as yours doesn't work. Keep your stock parts. I got a Caltric one and while it has no slot, the cog race fit perfectly into my Triumph part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Well one of the approaches was to replace the race only. Although I might have removed one too many clips. It would explain the failure when i refit it back.

But in theory I should be able to order this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/233318396986
and put it in my triumph sprag. I went ahead and ordered it.


What's the link for your Caltric part?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
I'm sorry, it was so long ago I don't have the link. However I just now went to Ebay motorcycle parts and typed caltric hayabusa starter clutch and there it is, along with gaskets for 38.60 from a company in Pacoima CA item number 291877192018. I got it from that company. It says; fits 1999 to 2004 but from the photo there is no gap in the splines. I had hoped it was an old stock photo because of no gap. They sent me the older part, it wouldn't go on, no gap. For 38.60 I didn't complain or send it back. I just swapped the innards. By the time I got the part in the mail I had already gone through my entire starting system, battery, button, solenoid, sprag. The bike was fixed. I saw my large size Triumph sprag had nothing wrong with it. I did assemble the race into my old part. It fit and worked well in my hand. I didn't bother to test it on the bike.
I wish you had tried to put that entire part on, instead of taking it apart. The housing wears too. It isn't hard metal, as I notice scratches and tiny dings on my old Triumph part, from being tossed into my junk parts box and being shoved around a work bench of clutter. (I never throw mc parts away). It sure sounds as if the innards of the one you have are too small but it is also possible the housing itself is worn out. I wonder if anyone has had luck simply swapping the part from Ideal. Are you saying you left a part off it, or that it never worked at all when tested right out of the box in your hand. Scratching timing marks with a drill is not a problem so an entire new part is the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
I didn't try it directly in the bike until after I had taken out the innards. Will try to reassemble it the way it was out of the box and see if that works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
It's worth a try since it isn't reliable as it is. Hope you didn't go to all the bother of putting the fairings on. I did that before. Since it takes me about half an hour to get it all on nice, when the bike still didn't work I felt like my bride had walked out of our wedding at the altar. My thought was, it doesn't work but it sure looks pretty. I left it that way for a week so I could at least enjoy that much. After that, I stated all over again. When it stops being fun to work on I walk away for a few days. :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,233 Posts
Discussion Starter #74
Why are you listing both parts and talking about disassembling/re-assembling?
You would just fit the second part as it is received.
The only note is that, although it will work without doing anything, when you come to doing the valves you won't have the timing mark - hence the requirement to mark the TDC point on the new one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
No. You ordered the right part but wrecked it.
In response to your question on page 7. "Did I do something wrong?"
Yes. You did.
The part you got should obviously be used out of the box, just make scribe timing marks. The housings are soft metal. That part you got is nice because the housings wear too not just the spring, so swapping innards won't work forever. All new is a way better than swapping innards.
The good news is, you proved your new but wrecked sprag will fit onto the start system. I wouldn't bother to play around with that $9.00 replacement race listed on ebay at all. The best bet is to replace the whole thing.
Thanks for your experiments and that link. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
At this point you have done more investigating than I have. This is the extent of my knowledge. I had to put the big Triumph sprag on years ago when I bought the bike, third hand. This spring I had a failure to crank issue. Thinking the sprag had failed, I took the entire start system apart and went through the electrical system too. I dread being stranded. I checked everything. I found a bad solenoid and dirty start button contacts, a chipped idler gear, some damaged splines on the starter, but the updated Triumph sprag tested fine in my hand. I had rebuilt the small old one and it worked in my hand too. That is why I bothered to comment at all. Since the stock one is bigger and worked I just put it back keeping the old one as a potential spare. I'd have to look at it. A sprag grabs one way but not the other. If it does that, it works. Why is yours isn't working is beyond me so long as the gears mesh. The starter spins but the engine won't? Could the crank be broken? Can you feel it turn over with compression with a wrench?
I just put a new lithium battery in for the extra cranking amps and it didn't work. It lit everything up but didn't crank, made noise. I jumped the solenoid, it started to crank. I found a wire on the solenoid wasn't tight, so I tightened it. They aren't stock and are kind of stiff. Works beautifully. Pretty much sums up everything I know about the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Thanks done. The sprags all work as they should when I try to spin them by hand (except the first one that failed years ago).

My engine is very hard to turn over at the moment, so that could cause the sprag to fail. It's hard to troubleshoot each problem because of the other, but perhaps I should really focus on the resistant-to-turning-over problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
I'd take the plugs out when trying to spin the engine so you aren't fighting the compression, just to be certain nothing inside is broken. A sprag clutch isn't like the one to the wheel. Those cogs form a wedge that doesn't tend to slip Unless the insides of the device is out of tolerance they lock up hard. It fits the shaft, yet brand new it doesn't work. Without being there, I got nothing. I'd be curious about your final result but have nothing else to offer.
 
61 - 79 of 79 Posts
Top