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Discussion Starter #1
I am currently way too deep into this Daytona rescue project so no stopping now. As I suspected the swingarm is bent, as evidenced by the side lean of the rear wheel. I read the Haynes manual for a grasp of what I was working with and commenced disassembly. I am as far as the rear wheel out and all the surrounding bits removed. I have removed both swingarm pivot bolts and the subframe is “sprung” in relation to its hole lining up with the swingarm pivot on the right side. The threads are well knackered on this side pivot bolt. Probably a bent subframe as well.
The Haynes says my next step is to remove the side distance pieces and then drive out the pivot shaft. I can’t seem to understand how to remove the distance pieces. The end rubber covers are past it so I finished removing them so I do see what I’m working with. So exactly what has to move to proceed with disassembly?

Thanks again for the help, I promise it will be on the road at some point.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok, I have it all part now. I missed the bit where the manual says to swing the subframe up out of the way. We call that “crabbing” in the Guzzi world.
 

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glad you got it sorted -- i have no experience of T100 dissasembly - but looked at exploded diagrams - but it didnt help my understanding - needed to be phyically in front of me to get sense of it ---- a lot different to the T120 set up i am more used to --- good luck with the progress
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Was swingarm, Now will not start.

Thank you Peg,
More information is always helpful, especially the illustrations.
I have the bike back together after ordering a new swingarm shaft. Both the original shaft and the one that came with the replacement swingarm were excessively worn on the drive side. Since this seems to be a problem, when I reassembled the bike I moved the pivot bolt with the grease fitting from the right side to the left, hopefully ensuring the drive side gets as much grease as it needs. At some point I will probably drill and tap the opposite pivot bolt for a grease fitting also.
Now for the fun bit. The next time I even breathe that I am unbolting that subframe someone slap me upside the head. Four bolts on each side of the bike and once one is in, none of the others line up. Hours to get it done properly. But the bike looks lovely now with a vertical rear wheel, and the rear shocks lined up to bolt them in.

So, time for a test ride and the bike will not start. It has sparks, but the plugs are dry. When I depress the ticklers petrol does not come out the top as I am used to on previous Triumphs. When I purchased the bike these were working properly and bike started quickly, although I believe the seller had probably run the bike before I arrived. Fuel is flowing freely into the carbs, as evidenced when I crack the bowl drain.
Ideas please. I would like a ride before the riding weather is gone. It owes me one.

Mark
 

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Hi Mark,

Apologies for missing out on this thread, been away; glad you managed to get everything back together. However:-

new swingarm shaft. Both the original shaft and the one that came with the replacement swingarm were excessively worn on the drive side. Since this seems to be a problem, when I reassembled the bike I moved the pivot bolt with the grease fitting from the right side to the left, hopefully ensuring the drive side gets as much grease as it needs.
Mmmm ...

While you're right about the crap standard Triumph spec. of putting only one grease nipple on the swinging arm spindle, according to the parts books, your bike has the same swinging arm parts as my '69. On my bike, the two original spindle bolts were different lengths - because, while the spindle butts up against the drive-side subframe bracket, there's a steel spacer between the timing-side spindle end and bracket and a thrust washer outside the bracket, and the timing-side bolt (with the grease nipple) is correspondingly longer for these. When I was assembling my T100, swapping the bolts left only a short length of thread inside the timing-side of the spindle, or fitting the steel spacer on the drive side moved the grease holes in the spindle away from the middle of each swinging arm bearing towards the timing-side edge.

I had two new spindle bolts made in stainless, both tapped for a grease nipple but I believe I'm going to add some sort of 'filler' to the centre of the swinging arm spindle - the amount of grease just to fill the spindle is out of all proportion to the amount required to actually lubricate the swinging arm bearings. :Darn I'm thinking of a 'bobbin' shape, so the centre is in the axial centre of the spindle, spaced there by ends that are a sliding fit inside the spindle, the ends castellated so they don't block the flow of grease from the nipples into the gap between spindle and 'filler' and then to the swinging arm bearings.

the fun bit. The next time I even breathe that I am unbolting that subframe someone slap me upside the head. Four bolts on each side of the bike and once one is in, none of the others line up. Hours to get it done properly.
Yeah, 'tis a bit ... uh ... springy ...

bike will not start. It has sparks, but the plugs are dry. When I depress the ticklers petrol does not come out the top as I am used to on previous Triumphs. When I purchased the bike these were working properly and bike started quickly,
Mmmm ... this is usually just the tickler roll-pin isn't protruding far enough inside the float bowl to depress the float (very much). Pita but whip off a float bowl, pull out the tickler roll-pin a little way, replace the float-bowl and see if that makes tickling any faster. If it does, do the same on the other carb.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hello Stuart, and thank you for the reply. Now that you mention it that would make sense the pivot bolts would be different lengths. I do have all the spacers and distance pieces in properly, as well as the offset grease holes to line up as they should. I should be able to swap them back without too much bother with everything else done up tight. I will drill and tap the left bolt for a grease fitting while out. Yes, I’d say about a half tube of grease to fill that empty spindle....

So off with the float bowls next. These bikes are definitely for someone who needs a hobby, besides riding.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Good afternoon,
I modified the plungers and now the carbs bubble happily when tickled. The bike started up second kick and sounds good! It seems much smoother than the 750 Bonnie I owned in the past. So time for a first ride. I am at a loss for words to describe the ride quality. The motor is really nice. The cycle itself rides like a buckboard. The transmission shifts like nothing else I have ever ridden, including Guzzis. It is like stirring a box of rocks with a screwdriver. Maybe I’m spoilt by the “modern” shifting of the ‘70s Japanese 2-strokes I usually ride. My problem is I don’t know how much of this is normal or if I should be worried about any of it. The bike sounds really good though, but the British have always had the best exhaust note in cars and bikes.

Here is a pic of the project; so much of it is wrong but a lot is right too. I changed the stock high bars for the lower ones, and replaced the accessory tail light that was on it with an original. I also put a centerstand back on the bike. They’re too handy to use not to have it. I put the early style knee pads on it just because I like that style. I know, I don’t like the naff pipe wrap either but I’m a bit afraid of what might be under it. That and I still carry the scar of a nasty Guzzi header pipe burn.

Mark
 

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Hi Mark,

Firstly, nice bike. :thumb

The transmission shifts like nothing else I have ever ridden, including Guzzis. It is like stirring a box of rocks with a screwdriver. Maybe I’m spoilt by the “modern” shifting of the ‘70s Japanese 2-strokes I usually ride.
Ime, not; Triumph gearboxes ("transmissions") normally shift quite sweetly.

Have you adjusted the clutch by the book, including checking the pressure plate spins without wobbling?

Before eliminating pressure plate wobble, did you start with the clutch spring nuts screwed on to the studs so the stud ends showed either just at the bottoms of the nut slots or just at the tops?

Having eliminated pressure plate wobble, did you recheck clutch free play?

When you checked clutch free play, did you:-

. first screw in the adjuster 'til the pressure plate was obviously lifting (ensures the other end of the rod is up against the gearbox cover "clutch lever");

. unscrew the adjuster 'til the pressure plate was squeezing the clutch plates again;

. screw in the adjuster again but only with thumb-'n'-forefinger on the screwdriver (so you don't lift the pressure plate with the adjuster);

. finally unscrew the adjuster 1/4~1/2-turn and lock it with the locknut?

Did you adjust the clutch with the cable disconnected from the handlebar lever?

Having refitted the primary cover and clutch adjuster access plug, when you pull the handlebar clutch lever, have you checked the clutch adjuster doesn't hit the bottom of the access plug slot?

Turning to the other side of the bike, does the bike have the correct C-range (unit 350 and 500) shift lever? Another picture of the other side of the bike would be good, but have you checked that nothing on the shift lever is hitting the kickstart, particularly on upshifts?

Did you dismantle the gearbox during the rebuild?

What, if any, parts did you replace in the gearbox? Did you add anything - e.g. gaskets not shown in the '70 parts book but fitted to later T100's?

What oil are you using in the gearbox?

The cycle itself rides like a buckboard.
Back, front or both?

At the back:-

. When you reassembled the swinging arm, before attaching shocks., wheel, etc., when the swinging arm was set to a position, did it either fall very slowly under its own weight, or maintain the set position 'til nudged lightly downwards then fall very slowly under its own weight? Any more force required to move the swinging arm and the pivot's too tight. :(

. What springs on the rear shocks.? There were several rates even for 500's, most too stiff imho. :(

. What are the rear shocks.? How old? Fwiw, the shocks. look too long in your picture - the rear tyre doesn't appear to be very far off the ground, even if it's a 4.00x18.

At the front:-

. Dismantled the forks and checked all the usual suspects for straightness, correct dimensions, etc.?

. Checked the springs for alleged rate? Contemporary 650 and triple springs will fit ... :whistle

Finally, you know the rear grabrail is earlier than '70? :)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hello Stuart, and thanks for all of the useful information. The answer to most of your questions is “no” because I haven’t been that deep into this bike. However I did set up the swingarm properly where is just drops under its own weight. The new rear shocks are the same length as the originals.
Since my last post I had time to change the gearbox and primary case lubricants and put back in what the book calls for. I’m sure the water thin crap that came out of the gearbox contributed to the shifting problem. The shifter problem is mostly that the lever doesn’t readily return to the resting position after shifts. Now bear in mind I’ve ridden this bike maybe two whole miles so far, and not all at once at that. And given the weather lately I may not get a chance or time to do any more work and test ride the bike until springtime, or it isn’t raining and warms up a bit, whatever comes first.
Yes the rear rail is the early type but I think it is a case once again of this being a 9/69 built bike and still using 1969 model parts before the year changeover. Speaking of which the grey face tach on the bike does work well so I replaced the incorrect black face T120 150mph speedo with one of the aftermarket grey faced speedos, and now it reads correctly. The two gauges still don’t match all that well so I am debating replacing the original grey tacho with the aftermarket grey one to match the new speedo, and sell the original tach.

Honestly I bought this bike as a quick project I could hop on and scoot around town while upgrading the condition, without doing a lot of work on first. It does run well. I just don’t have time to do a full rebuild if needed and I’m pretty much just pouring good money after bad at this point. It may be I bought the wrong bike to begin with, but when I see a bike that needs help I usually can’t help myself. I’m not complaining about the cost, and I chalk it up to doing my bit to help get the bike back on the road. It may be time to pass it along to the next person who has the time and expertise to take it further than I can.

Mark
 

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Hi Mark,

The answer to most of your questions is “no” because I haven’t been that deep in
I bought this bike as a quick project I could hop on and scoot around town while upgrading the condition, without doing a lot of work on first. It does run well. I just don’t have time to do a full rebuild if needed and I’m pretty much just pouring good money after bad at this point.
Mmmm ... I wouldn't have said that checking most of my suggestions required much money, more just time? However, I appreciate that removing something like the primary or gearbox cover could reveal something that needs a lot of money to fix.

Ime, these bikes are rarely available "as a quick project". They're all several decades old; unless one's had only one or two owners, "a quick project" is a well-rebuilt one that you fix the last few niggles that didn't bother the rebuilder. Otoh, most are survivors of the period when they were just cheap transport and, because decent spares were few and far between, they were 'fixed' with whatever was available. Moreover, we're now in another period when decent spares are becoming rarer and, unless the PO could be bothered to spend some time on the internet forums, you're just dealing with the consequences of the cheap-crap spares he bought. :( Doesn't mean (yet) it needs "a full rebuild" but, equally, you aren't going to make it at least mechanically-decent for bugger-all.

The cycle itself rides like a buckboard.
I did set up the swingarm properly where is just drops under its own weight. The new rear shocks are the same length as the originals.
If the problem is at the rear, check what the spring rate actually is? And, if the rear tyre isn't really very far off the ground when the bike's on the centrestand, maybe double-check the shocks. are the correct length?

If the hard ride is the front, stripping the forks might reveal expensive horrors, but equally it could just reveal a DPO fitted bushes that were too tight and/or, as I posted earlier, springs from a 650 or triple ...? :whistle

change the gearbox and primary case lubricants and put back in what the book calls for.
The shifter problem is mostly that the lever doesn’t readily return to the resting position after shifts.
This could be something as simple as a gungy shifter mechanism, which is in the outer gearbox cover:-

. Unfortunately, you'll need to drain the gearbox oil again. :(

. Having removed the outer cover, look at the shifter mechanism there and at the gearbox through inner cover. If the gearbox doesn't look like it's sat full of water for years:-

.. (carefully) dismantle the mechanism around the shifter, clean out any old grease and other gunge, fit a new pair of shifter springs (parts book pages 26/27, parts #12), and "Thrust buttons" (parts #13) if they're missing;

.. if the mechanism is rusty, I'd also fit new "(Gearchange Quadrant) Spring retaining pins" (parts #6) and "Split pins" (parts #9) - reason is, if they rust through and break, the "Selector plunger" (part #8) pops up and it becomes a [email protected] to get the gearbox outer cover off; :(

.. regrease and reassemble the shifter mechanism, fit a new kickstart shaft seal (part #46) in the outer cover.

. Before refitting the cover, the "[Kickstart] Return spring plate" (parts book pages 22/23, part #5) will almost certainly have popped off the shaft and released the spring tension; :rolleyes: with it refitted, the shaft must be turned one complete turn to tension the spring before refitting the gearbox outer cover. Or you'll have a droopy kickstart ...

If the above, as I say, time rather than "pouring ... money"?

the rear rail is the early type but I think it is a case once again of this being a 9/69 built bike and still using 1969 model parts before the year changeover.
:nah If you look at images of '69 T100's (e.g. https://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/photos/1969_triumph_t100r_dayton/index.html), you'll see the rail runs straight back from the top shock. mounts to the fender mounting above the rear lamp; sticking my neck out, this appears to be true of all Triumphs without 'bathtubs' so the rail on your bike might not even be Triumph. However, I appreciate changing this probably is "pouring ... money"? :)

the grey face tach on the bike does work well so I replaced the incorrect black face T120 150mph speedo with one of the aftermarket grey faced speedos, and now it reads correctly. The two gauges still don’t match all that well so I am debating replacing the original grey tacho with the aftermarket grey one to match the new speedo, and sell the original tach.
Mmmm ... similar problem to one I've encountered - the pattern clocks are a little taller than Smiths originals? :( I've been looking for a while for a genuine Smiths black-face tacho. for my T150, because the pattern ones are that bit too tall to fit into the early triples' speedo.-tacho.-Ammeter mounting 'binnacle'. :Darn However, as a seller, you should get good money for either original Smiths clock. :thumb

Hth.

Regards,
 
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