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GP shift rearsets query

7K views 61 replies 7 participants last post by  TTRIgnitionSystems 
#1 ·
Hopefully i'm not reposting - i've done a search and can't find a definitive answer to what i'm looking for...

I'm after some rearsets for my 2016 striple R, nothing too fancy as the only reason I want them is to flip the shifting over to gp shift..

Just to throw a spanner in the works though, I have the Triumph pull-type quick shifter fitted so i'm wondering if there's a set out there which will allow me to flip the shifting around but also keep the pull-type shifter? I've seen pics of some where the shift rod rotates from a bolt near the sidestand mount, so I guess it would work with this style of rearset as the shift arm will still be rotating anti-clockwise...

The other question is whether Daytona rearsets will fit?? I seem to be able to find a lot of 2008-2013 striple or 2013+ daytona rearsets, but not many 2013-2016 striple rearsets!

Thanks :)
 
#3 · (Edited)
Check this thread out...
Reverse/GP Shift Pattern without Aftermarket Rearsets
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh....net/showthread.php?p=2003935688&share_type=t

As far as the rear sets all Daytona and street triple rear sets have the same bolt pattern. So they are interchangeable, major differences between the 8-12 & 13+ is the exhaust mount.

I have Daytona’s on my street triple,and sold mine to a Daytona owner who converted his Daytona into a street triple. Go figure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#4 ·
This is interesting. Since retiring and no longer commuting to work, I'm riding on the street much less than I used to. I've probably done more track miles than street miles this year. My Street is standard shift, and my track bike is inverted. I've never had much issue shifting (eh? Punny, no? ;) ) back and forth, but this could be an easy and not too expensive way to eliminate the need to make the adjustment. Besides...BLING!

One issue has me hesitating: A buddy installed a similar device on one of his bikes and didn't like it. Hopefully, I can explain why. A shifter mounted to the rearsets pivots in the same general area that your ankle does, so the arcs that your foot and shifter peg move along when shifting is similar. Sort of like this: (( . With this shifter, the pivot is well forward and outside the arc your foot moves along, causing the arcs of your foot and the peg to be opposing. More like this: )( . The geometry gets even farther off, if the heights of the pivots are far enough away from each other that you are pushing or pulling into or away from the shifter pivot.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to give it a try.
 
#11 ·
Okay...I'm beginning to obsess about this Woodcraft inverted shift contraption. I did a little digging and found assembly instructions along with their part #08-5508CNV. That number is for the kit without a quickshifter. 08-5507CNV is with a quickshifter. That one shows that it's for Daytonas, but does retain the side stand. There is a race model for the Daytona that deletes the side stand. The difference between 07 and 08 is that the shift rod for 08 is 6". For 07, the shift rod is 7 3/4".

On the second page of the instructions, which are for their entire rearset kit, the installation of the inverted shift device is detailed. Based on the drawing, the pivot for the shift pedal attaches to the forward side stand anchor bolt. Since it is designed to work with their rearsets, and it's listed as a stand alone bit for Daytonas, I'm feeling more confident that it won't position the toe peg too far forward from my (size 9) toes. If it is, I don't see a reason why the pivot couldn't be installed onto the rear side stand anchor bolt. What I need to do now is go down and take a good look how the foot peg, current shift peg, and the mounting point line up. If they are close enough to being in a single line, then I've more than likely talked myself into getting this. If the toe peg is significantly above or below the line between the foot peg and mounting bolt, I'll have to find something else to obsess about. After over 6 years of ownership, it's getting really, really hard to find any more farkles, though. :(

https://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/files/1e1bad9d-684f-409c-a7f8-c0a2681e82e4.pdf
 
#12 ·
That looks close enough for me.



Now, I need to figure out how I can afford to buy it RIGHT NOW, because...yanno...being a responsible adult and waiting until I really can afford it is just out of the freaking question...

;)
 
#13 ·
Nice work Jack, keep it up :wink2::grin2:

I think even if it doesn't line up exactly, you'll have some adjustment on the shift rod and if necessary you could always rotate the shift arm round one notch on the rod that sticks out of the gearbox (I have absolutely no idea what it's called). Worst case scenario you could always get a longer/shorter shift rod I guess?

I had my first trackday on the striple yesterday and whilst the bike itself is more than capable, I found myself cursing the rearsets for a lot of it so something really needs to change! How much difference do the daytona rearsets make to the height of the peg? If it's not much then I might resort to some Gilles or similar and look at buying a push-type shifter to allow me to swap over to race shift...
 
#14 ·
It's not enough to make daily riding feel much different from the stock ones, but it might be just enough for the track. If you can find an inexpensive set here, on 675.net, or fleabay, they might be worth a try. If they don't work, you can always sell them off. Proper rearsets are not cheap. I just spent almost $500 to put a set of Woodcrafts on my track KTM RC390.

I'll be ordering the Woodcraft contraption tomorrow. I'll be sure to post the results. I know what you are talking about. I call the short piece the shift rod connects to via a Heim joint the shift arm, but I could be wrong. Based on how closely the 3 points in my photo line up, and it only takes a small amount of movement to change gears, I imagine it will just take a little fiddling to get it right.
 
#17 ·
True, but sometimes when I get a little lazy with my feet, I still drag them. What about this?



At some point I might have dragged my engine case guard. I don't know when it happened, but I do know I've never low-sided this bike. The previous owner did, and you can see the scrap on the case behind the guard, but I installed the case guards after I bought the bike. I'm thinking maybe it was a stone hit.

I discovered it while installing Woodcraft rearsets. Can't wait to get out and give them a flog.



:vroom
 
#20 ·
Dragging case guards is suspension setup issue or you are not getting your body off the bike far enough and just leaning the bike too much. I have ridden bikes on the track with stock pegs and managed not to drag them or my feet. It is all foot position and getting your butt off the seat to turn the motorcycle and not just leaning the bike. This is not to say that aftermarket rear sets do not help, they do, but a large percentage of dragging pegs and feet is due to the factors above not your rearsets. YMMV.
 
#21 ·
Again, i appreciate where you're coming from but you can't say that's 100% the reason in all cases...

Striple pegs are low compared to a sports bike so they're always going to touch down when you get to a certain angle of lean, regardless of suspension or body position...in fact foot position and getting your butt off the seat has nothing to do with turning the bike, it's just an aid to allow faster speeds at the same lean angle due to having a lower centre of gravity, but I get your point.

Dragging case guards is extreme but i'd imagine that's either down to the previous owner or catching it on a raised curb...I'm sure Jack would notice if he was dragging that consistently :wink2:
 
#26 ·
Yeah, no ****. Although, I know what I need to do, it's actually doing it that is my problem. I have the same problem with my golf game. :eek:

That's a great photo. The only photographer around here who is worth a crap rarely takes any nice tight shots.
 
#27 ·
hahah nah not at all, advice is always welcome...admittedly i was trying to "style" it out a bit more than normal on that corner just for the photographer. We have a guy called Alex James in the UK who photographs at a lot of track & race days and he takes the best shots i've seen...he was lying down about 2ft from the apex to get these shots, dedication!

But yeah body position is definitely one of aspects of riding which I never think you completely master, look at Rossi though after dominating GP for so long and then MM comes along with his new style and Rossi and the rest of the bunch have to completely change how they sit on the bike just to try and keep up!

For me, I spent years trying to perfect the "right" style and as a consequence I wasted many trackdays trying to do this, neglecting things like correct lines, braking markers and visual focus points so I wasn't really improving. Best thing I did was a whole morning on track completely forgetting how my body was positioned on the bike, literally just sat on it in a way which was totally comfortable and I didn't have to think about it...net result was I went just as quick but I was MUCH more consistent and half as tired at the end of each session. The drawback was that things like foot positioning was poor and the bike was leant over more than usual but I found a halfway house between the two "styles" and as a result gained the benefits of more energy, more time to think before each turn and generally just in much more control of the bike and what I wanted it to do. I'm far from being an expert or knowing if this is a good way to go about things but worth a try if you ever find yourself banging your head against the wall (figuritvely speaking!!)..

Anyway, I realise we've gone a little off topic and I'm probably being really boring so i'll shutup now lol
 

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#28 ·
Whelp...I don't imagine much else is going to happen in this thread until I get the Shifter Invertatron 3000, so post away with whatever tangents you want. Besides, you started the thread, so you can take it anywhere you please. I called the vendor yesterday, because there was a little glitch with my address, but they sorted it and should ship sometime early next week. I'm a little excited by all this.
 
#33 ·
wow, we have 1 day in the 30's here and the whole country goes into meltdown - literally!

yeah probably not worth the hassle, concentrate on the Trumpet ;) The woodcrafts should work with a QS but you might just need to pick up a shorter rod?

haha, because i'm an idiot and agreed to a load of work completely forgetting it was the GP weekend...although saying that the cost of the tickets for Silverstone are just daft so I'm not too bothered...should be interesting to see how the Duke fairs this weekend though
 
#35 ·
The shift rod was one of the details I sweated over a bit. Fortunately, Woodcraft has just enough info on their site to mostly allay my fears. The unit W/O QS comes with a 7 3/4" shift rod. The unit W/QS has a 6" one. As best as I could measure it with the left side of the bike against a wall, the QS is 1 3/4". Imagine that. Also, it appears all the threads on that side of the rod are right-handed. I have the proper die and the Woodcraft rod is just a rod, so bodging is very possible.

I'm surprised to hear the tickets are so expensive. I thought I saw they were generally cheaper in Europe (including the UK for now), than they are here. I even thought next year it might be cheaper to fly there to attend than going to Texas. Independent of the money, I'd much rather spend a week in England than Texas.
 
#40 ·
Back on topic (please don't ban me!). ;)

I received confirmation of shipping. The Invertatron 3000 will be here sometime tomorrow. Stand by to stand by. This could be a may be.
 
#43 ·
It's on.



But not without difficulty. The shift bracket (that's what they call the pedal) would bind on the side stand as I snugged the bolt. It took me a while to figure that out, but once I did it was dealt with fairly easily. I removed the side stand, disassembled it and took it to the belt sander. The other issue was that despite the warning on the instructions from Woodcraft saying to tighten all fasteners to factory spec or industry standards, there's no way to tighten the pivot bolt anywhere close to the 45Nm/33.19ft-lbs the service manual indicates for the side stand mounting bolts. I've already written an email to Woodcraft about these issues. I'll let you know what they say.



It was raining as I was finishing up, so only tested on the stand, and everything appears to be working, so I'll call it a win.
 
#45 ·
Good work Jack,and I have to say Nigel looks to be in showroom condition. If I didn’t know better I’d suspect your bike spent most of its time in the garage.
I’ll be looking forward to the ride report.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Since I retired, it has. :(
 
#46 ·
Woo nice work Jack, looking good!

I'm sure it'll be fine but the angle between the shift bracket and shift rod seems quite extreme compared to the angle between shift rod and shift arm (no idea if i've used the correct terminology here) so i'm just wondering if you'll get a more "positive" shift in one direction than the other? I guess if it feels fine on the stand then it should be ok :)

Really looking forward to hearing your feedback after a road test

Good job!
 
#48 ·
You can see most of grinding I did in the photo. What you can't really see is that I continued it around the pivot bolt, so it wouldn't contact while the side stand was deployed, either. I guess it really doesn't matter if there is some contact while the bike is sitting on the stand, but I was already grinding, so why not?

I got a response from Eric Wood today. He said they did not have that issue with the bike they used for test fitting, so it may be a tolerance thing and I was the lucky loser. What are the odds, eh? If you do get one, you may not have this issue. If you do, it's not the side stand pivot bolt, so don't waste your time grinding it down. :eek:

Eric also made a couple suggestions. I'm going to take off today, do some inspection, and try his suggestions to see how they work. I'm also thinking of safety wiring the bolt, but am afraid I won't be able to find a place to anchor the wire, because that one bolt sticks out pretty far.
 
#50 ·
It's inverted, race, or *gag* GP shift. That's what this bit is designed to do. However, the clearance issue I had was not a function of the orientation of the shift pattern, it was a function of where the shift bracket attached to the bike. It wasn't a show-stopper for me. It just added a little time and effort to the process. The upside is that it also forced me to disassemble, clean, and re-grease my side stand, which is now working like butter.

(Note: I have personal issues calling an inverted shift pattern "GP shift". Do WSB riders call is WSB shift? Kevin Schwantz is probably one of the more famous racers who used a standard 1 down, 5 up pattern, and he raced in GP, so which is which? Okay, enough of my mindless drivel...)

I'm also just back from a quick road test, and initial reviews are positive. Shifting up or down feels very similar to before, including the slight extra effort required for full-throttle up shifts using the quick shifter. However, now that the up shifts are done by pressing down with the sole of your boot, even that seems easier. If you are looking to invert your shift pattern, but don't want to pay the price for full rearsets that give you that ability, this could be the way to go.
 
#54 ·
Interesting stuff Jack, glad to hear the shifting is positive on the road. To this day, I don't understand why bikes come out of the factory in road-shift pattern...is it just because that's what the market is used to, or a safety thing? I can't think why else...race shift just makes more sense to me whether it's on the road or track. 2 months into striple ownership and I still find myself shifting up into 5/6th at stop signs *facepalm*

I've found a similar product here in the UK which I think i'm going to purchase just to save on shipping costs. I've used both SES & Woodcraft products in the past and not been disappointed in either so it'll be good to compare it with the Woodcraft you're using:

https://www.sesraceproducts.com/race-change-kit-triumph-675-13-16-rck006-bk-479-p.asp

I'd like to buy their full rearsets but after speaking with them on the phone they've confirmed they only do Daytona rearsets and the exhaust bracket is slightly off so I need to investigate the exhaust collar which you mentioned back on page 1...I really don't want to fork out on something expensive like Gilles as I've already emptied my bank buying bike bling recently.

I can't remember if you said you had to purchase a new quickshifter or not? Are you using the factory fitted Triumph one? Mine quite clearly states "pull" on it but some info out there on them interwebs is saying that you can adjust the wiring to make it work as a "push".

Thanks for posting the info/pics Jack, much appreciated and it's definitely helping me reach a decision...which i'll make at some point...possibly even this year...
 
#55 ·
Joe,

I did not have to buy a new QS. The way the Woodcraft one is designed, it retains the pull function for upshifts. That SES one would require a push type QS. You would also have to flip the shift arm on the shaft. It appears (in the photo on the SES site) that there is enough clearance with the frame for that, but I think it's going to be close. I have no idea about modifying a pull QS to work as a push.

More info from Woodcraft, because more info is always better, right?

I just got off the phone with Waylon at Woodcraft. One of the issues I had was tightening the bolt that mounts the shift bracket. I mentioned initially that I could not get anywhere near the factory specified torque of 33ft-lbs (45Nm) for the side stand mounting bolts without binding the shift bracket. I was afraid I'd mushroomed the head of the spacer that the bracket pivots on. That spacer is designed to extend beyond the shift bracket slightly. The bolt and washer tighten to the spacer allowing the bracket to pivot freely. There is also a wave washer used to cancel side-to-side play. My fears were confirmed yesterday, when I removed the bolt, and then had trouble getting the spacer out of the bracket. Before installation, it slide freely in and out. After over-tightening it, it dragged in a nails on chalkboard sort of way on the way out, and did not go back in very easily. Being very particular about things like this, I decided I needed a new spacer and fired off another email to Woodcraft.

Mr. Wood agreed to split cost and shipping with me 50-50, to which I readily agreed. I had to call Waylon this morning to seal the deal. $11 shipped to my door is probably the smallest idiot tax I've paid in quite a while. Waylon also mentioned that he and Mr. Wood had been discussing this issue and they agreed that something around 18-20ft-lbs and liberal use of blue Loctite would be sufficient to secure the bolt without damaging the sleeve. In response to my thoughts about safety wiring the bolt and finding an anchor point, Mr. Wood suggested drilling a small hole in the side stand bracket. I'm going to look for a suitable spot today and give that go.
 
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#57 · (Edited)
Now, what fun is that? For us, that is. ;)

Went back into the breach and drilled holes in the side stand bracket and bolt head. Then did a half ass safety-wire job. Once I get the new sleeve, I'll redo everything and take some more pictures. This is the most attention Nigel has had in quite a while.
 
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