05 Won’t Start. Searched and searched - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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05 Won’t Start. Searched and searched

Scoured the web and can’t find a solution. Please, it’s not the clutch switch or kick stand.

Details:
-05 Speed3, 15K miles. Don't know much about the history of the bike. Guy had to bump start it to get it going so I could drive it home.
-Bike won't start without a bump in 2nd gear. Jumping does nothing. Once it's started it idles and runs great.
-took the battery to Advance Auto, puts out ~14V, 225CCA (rated 190). Battery is on a tender while I troubleshoot.
-Volt at connected battery with ignition on starts over 13V
-Fuses and Relays are good as far as I can tell
-Bike just keeps cranking and cranking but won't turn over. No fuel smell coming from the exhaust
-fuel pump is good, it does prime, stuck a tube on it to make sure.
-replaced Plugs, old ones looked good. All 3 tested for spark, they looked good
-oil and filter changed
-Cleaned the wiring and contacts and grounds
-loaded 12102 ECU Map
-no error codes
-I did seize the sprag clutch. Started motor was making a screeching noise, not the cranking noise. I took apart the sprag and put it back together. It turns in 1 direction only very smoothly.
-it actually sounds better and very fast now when cranking (battery fully charged probably why its faster). Still won't turn.
-I can start the bike with a little starter fluid down the intakes. Again, idles and revs great. Let it run for 15mins to reset the ecu adaptation. Voltage to the battery is 13.5V and climbs. Once I shut it off, it won't restart without more fluid.

My thoughts: since it idles and runs and does eventually start with help, I'm guessing electrical, compression, fuel pump, injectors and coils are good. Plugs don't look fouled and I'm not smelling anything out of the exhaust, is the engine getting gas to start?
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyOWhy View Post
-took the battery to Advance Auto, puts out ~14V, 225CCA (rated 190). Battery is on a tender while I troubleshoot.
No way was it 14V

Quote:
-Volt at connected battery with ignition on starts over 13V
Not sure if I'm interpreting what you are saying there correctly, but again there is no way the voltage is 13V with ignition on

Quote:
-loaded 12102 ECU Map
That is not a valid number for a Keihin map - should start with a 20***

20102 (if that's what it is) is an obsolete map replaced by 20272 - that is for serial number up to vin #281465 WITH Dual TOR exhausts (or other after-market duals) and WITH Catalyst and WITH SAI (Secondary Air Injection)
Does that match your configuration?
if not check what you have and match it against the correct map for your config.

Once you are satisfied you have the correct map loaded:
Check that the MAP sensor is connected properly and there are no leaks - using TuneECU on diagnostics, check the numbers with ignition on and on all three cylinders once you get it started (with your starter fluid if necessary) using the Tests screen for the 'balance' readings - that will help pinpoint if you have any leaks on the vac hoses.

Follow this procedure to set up your TPS/ISCV calibration - https://www.triumphrat.net/ecm-and-f...djustment.html
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Decosse. Yeah, it’s not 14V. Just going off bad memory but looking at the printout out, it tested at 12.9V at the store. As for the 13V, I didn’t unplug the tender. It’s starts anywhere between 12.3-8 with it unplugged. Also, bad memory, the map does start with 20###. I just remember the last digits, ##102. The original map on the bike was 20102. I just got a copy of that map from the obsolete tuneecu section and loaded it. The bike has a 3to1 MIVV with SAI and O2. Would 20272 be a better map? I’ll get it going and get those balance values. Thanks Again, really appreciate your help.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyOWhy View Post
Thanks ... The bike has a 3to1 MIVV with SAI and O2. Would 20272 be a better map? .
Not sure why you would re-load the obsolete map when it has been replaced by 20272

But for the 3 into 1 exhaust 20213 would be the preferred choice.
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 11:59 AM
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i know you mentioned you had the battery on the charger, the 1050 loves CCA's for start up ... i had a battery that would check out on the charger (showed fully charged) but it was on its way out (batteries can hold charged but overtime lose the starting power quality CCA's) and it would not satisfy my Speedy's appetite with enough CCA's to start it ... even with jumper cables from a car battery. in the end I bit the bullet and I got a new battery which then, bike started right away. have you tested the battery you are using on maybe a different bike to make sure it has enough juice to start it. Also i know you changed the plugs but have you check the coils ... i have an 05 and it had the old stile coil seals and they were rusty as hell changed over to the new style and no moisture has gone inside the plug wells

Ride-on
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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Very simple battery load test - turn on key with headlights on - measure the battery voltage and also see how quickly it is dropping over a period of say 30 secs to 1 minute.
(It WILL drop, the question is how low and how quickly)
That will give you a very real indication of the condition of the battery.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Finally had a little time today to work in the bike. The battery puts out 13.47V ignition off. It drops to 12.8 ignition on and after about 30seconds it holds steady at 12.47V.

I loaded the 20213 map.

I got a new battery and installed it. Bike still won’t start. Not battery.

I added seafoam to the gas tank.

Started the bike up with starter fluid. Got my balance readings and they are really high at 900, 860, and 850! What does that mean. I let the bike run for about 10minutes or so and shut it off and restarted a few times. It starts up instantly. About an hour or so later I tried starting it again, no luck.

Noticed while it was idling that every few minutes the idle would have a slight hesitation for a few seconds and then idle normal again. Also, I’m not familiar with the S3 but it feels like it runs really hot and it’s only idling. The temperature gauge actually hit 7 bars (100C). The radiator fan does turn on and when it does it feels like a heat gun. Coolant reservoir is topped off.

That’s all I had time for today. Didn’t get a chance for a TPS/ISC calibration. I’m gonna swap out my gas next go around in case it is the fuel.

So what’s the high compression mean and is this temperature/heat normal? And how is this related to my starting problems?
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Forgot to mention, obviously related to the fuel but could be indicative of bad or stale fuel, but the plastic gas tank expanded almost an inch. There’s no way I’m getting this tank back on. Bike came missing the mount screw and came to find out that the hole is actually stripped. I’ve read that nose have seen maybe 1/2” expansion but I’m literally at a full 1”.
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 12:49 AM
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It seems like your charging system is working overtime to keep your battery voltage up. In the "Charging Systems Diagnostics - Rectifier/Regulator Upgrade" sticky, with the bike running at idle, voltage should at least be in the 13's. It might point to a charging system issue.

Have you flushed your cooling system and replaced the coolant?

I bought a used 2006 SV1000S last year which had been sitting for several years with half a tank of gas in it it. The tank was rusted pretty good and the fuel pump was very corroded from the ethanol/water that sank to the bottom of the tank. Surprisingly, my fuel injectors worked great (after I figured out that the misfiring at high rpm was due to my spark plug wires needing a trim).

My fuel pump looked like this:

I hope you find the source of your troubles!

You got loud pipes, but you ain't sayin' nothing!

Last edited by Speedy Russ; 06-08-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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My fuel pump is good. I know that because I replaced it. When I did the replacement, everything looked good. The old pump was still good but I already had a new pump and I already had it open. I can add the coolant flush to my list of things to try.
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