2000 S3 turns over, not starting - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
Supersport 400
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2000 S3 turns over, not starting

On the plus side, I have no leaks anywhere on the reassembled silver tank, but don't hear the fuel pump priming and it turns over but doesn't start (of course). I pull a few codes from TuneECU: P0230 (fuel pump relay default), P1231 (fuel pump relay open) and P1116 (coolant temp gauge or short).
Took tank out again and recheck pump fittings and connections. All good there. Rechecked white plug connection on plate, all good there.
It started and ran great the last time I had it out with the leaky black tank, although I did have a CEL on that ride. Didn't check for the code at the time--mostly concerned with getting the leaky tank off and draining it.
Also, while making sure the relays were all seated well, found this alligator clip with a needle soldered to it under one of the relays. Assuming it was used for diagnostics and left there by one of the prev owners.
Any clues to this situation would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:35 PM
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There are no fuel pump relays on your model
You need to verify whether those codes are current or holdovers from when you had tank off/disconnected ....
Recognize that even during current diagnostics, if those are unplugged at any time and ignition is turned on, those errors will post and be retained even when you plug things back in.
So plug things in, clear them and see if they come back

The Fuel Pump has ignition power direct to the positive terminal; the 'ground' side of the pump is the enable - it sinks current directly back through the ECU, turned on when the ECU enables it.

My 'guess' is that the codes associated with the electrical issues were simply when you had disconnected and the actual problem has more to do with the pump module since you were recently working on that. The coolant temp one would not have anything to do with the fuel pump running or not, but it WOULD affect the way it runs. Again, most likely just disconnected when power on - maybe still disconnected (that one is on the thermostat/filler assembly under the front tank cover)
But once you clear them, that will tell you one way or other,
You can also 'test' the pump directly from TuneECU
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, DEcosse. Cleared the codes, tested the fuel pump via ECU, the coolant code was gone, but the two Fuel pump ones, P0230 and P1231 still come up. What's the next step according to the DEcosse method? I've checked and rechecked all connections, had the tank off and on a couple of times, all with no results. I'm assuming that alligator clip was just floating around in there by the relays...
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Just pulled tank and fuel pump assembly again. Tested the pump right from a 12v batt and it runs, both from the pump itself and from the white connector on the plate. At least that's ruled out. Possibly the ECU? Running map 1075, not that that would make a diff with this issue.
Also, another possibility crossed my mind--I don't have much gas in the tank, maybe a quart. That wouldn't prevent the pump from working properly, would it? It ran directly off the battery with no gas--but is there something else that would keep it from pumping with low gas? Wanted to keep the gas volume in the tank low to make it easier for these frequent tank pulls.

Last edited by Rayvin; 04-30-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 04:40 PM
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First thing is to check for 12V with ignition on, at the Green/Red wire at the Fuel Pump connector (check that with respect to ground NOT to the other terminal)
- big clue here is on whether or not the Neutral and Oil lights are on - if not, you have a fundamental ignition circuit problem.

Next, need to check continuity of the Negative - Black/Purple - back to the ECU connector - the Fuel Pump control is 1/H1

Inspect the connector and also the pins of the ECU itself - occasionally have seen reports of corroded or even broken pins

If you get 12V at the green/red and good continuity from ECU to the pump connector, then that would suggest an issue with the ECU
(it is not unheard of for that circuit to fail, although more common would be short circuit rather than open circuit - I'd be more inclined to suspect a physical problem with either wring or connectors)

p.s. if you had low gas level, then clearly that would be a problem in starting (duhh) however you would not post the MIL errors, so there is a fundamental problem on the pump circuit not specific to the low fuel level
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Going to check out those voltages in a bit. In case it's the ECM, I don't see any Speed triple ones available--can I use a Daytona one and just load my S3 1075 map?
Hoping it's not the ECM, of course.
Back to the garage.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Voltage at green/red wire is 10.93v. Neutral and oil lights are on. Working on getting the connectors off the ECM to check the continuity of the black/purple wire to 1/H1 on the connector. Haynes manual helped with getting the connectors off the ECM. I get continuity from black/purple to 1/H1 ECM connector, so I guess I'm down to the ECM. Crap. It ran fine before all my tank work.

Last edited by Rayvin; 04-30-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 06:10 PM
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Daytona and S3 use the same ECU, as long as it has the correct connectors to match your loom i.e. 2 connectors rather than 1, you are good. If you replace the ECU with a Daytona one then make sure you load an S3 map on it before trying to run the bike.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 06:27 PM
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Actually any S3, Daytona, Sprint, TT600, Speed 4, Tiger 955 00-04 (Daytona through 06) will work - just need to flash the Daytona map

And no damage or corrosion to pins on ECU itself or corrosion in the connector?

Just to completely eliminate your wiring, leave BOTH ECU connectors unplugged, connect the Pump connector;
turn on ignition;
identify the 1/H1 terminal in the black ECU connector - connect that to ground/battery negative - pump should run.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Daytona and S3 use the same ECU, as long as it has the correct connectors to match your loom i.e. 2 connectors rather than 1, you are good. If you replace the ECU with a Daytona one then make sure you load an S3 map on it before trying to run the bike.
Thanks, Rampant. I've found one on EBay for $70, from a 2000 S3 and same part #, etc. I guess I take a chance with the used one--really want to be sure it's the ECM--I mean it worked fine before I pulled the original tank...got a new battery in there, too--wonder why I'm only reading 10.93v at the white fuel pump connector--I read almost 13 at the battery.

Last edited by Rayvin; 04-30-2019 at 06:31 PM.
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