'99 Speed triple cutting out - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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'99 Speed triple cutting out

Hi, I am working on a friends '99 Speed Triple that has developed a severe issue. He was in the process of bringing the bike over to work on the rear chain adjuster eccentric when the bike decided it didn't want to take any amount of throttle over idle. The bike had been sitting for a few months last fall before this, so we think it may have been moisture in the tank.
I pulled the tank and the fuel module out. The fuel smelled old, but no real moisture buildup other than slightly foggy like ethanol fuel will do. I cleaned the strainer and put the unit back in with a new tank seal. Then I pulled the injectors and cleaned them in the sonic cleaner. Blew them out good and reinstalled with new o-rings. Cleaned the throttle bodies and blades. New spark plugs, and fresh fuel also.
The bike is still doing the same thing. I put a pressure gauge on it and am getting 43 psi idling and when opening the throttle.
The bike will die when you open the throttle. You can baby it up to around 3500, then try to rev it any further it starts popping and spitting, blowing black smoke, eventually dying. The idle is crappy, and it won't start unless you open the throttle a bit.
Do I have a TPS issue here that needs addressing?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 06:04 PM
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Thread moved to Speed Triple Forum (from Street Triple)

Well, it could be the TPS - but that would be odd to just fail while parked up for a few months

One thing that could fit that bill however - you said you cleaned the TBs but didn't mention the air filter - look for a mouse nest in there (of course you can eliminate by running with airbox off for a test)
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DEcosse View Post
Thread moved to Speed Triple Forum (from Street Triple)

Well, it could be the TPS - but that would be odd to just fail while parked up for a few months

One thing that could fit that bill however - you said you cleaned the TBs but didn't mention the air filter - look for a mouse nest in there (of course you can eliminate by running with airbox off for a test)
D'oh!! Thanks for moving the thread, DEcosse.
No mouse nest in airbox, but there is a K&N filter installed. Do these bikes use a temp sensor in the fuel management system? The engine was replaced at one point in time, do not know when. There seems to be a temp sensor on the left side of the cylinder head where the upper radiator hose attaches at the thermostat housing that is not connected. Is this used on the Speed Triple?
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri speed05 View Post
....The engine was replaced at one point in time, do not know when. There seems to be a temp sensor on the left side of the cylinder head where the upper radiator hose attaches at the thermostat housing that is not connected. Is this used on the Speed Triple?
Hmmm - can you post a picture of the engine (both sides)
On a 99, there is an assembly under that removable cover at front of tank where the Radiator Filler/Thermostat/temp sensor are located
- on 02+ gen motors the thermostat and temp sensor are on left side of actual cylinder head.

* Thinking more about it, It could be a 99-01 Sprint engine - they have the temp sensor right on the actual elbow fitting on the head
(there shouldn't be a thermostat there on a Sprint motor - it's just an empty fitting to the head)

...... would really need to see what is fitted as an overall package - and does it have original wiring harness and 'old' single long connector ECU?
Depending on what map is installed the fueling could be a mile off.

To answer your primary question, the ECU looks at both coolant temp and air temp (and also atmospheric pressure)
If it IS a Sprint motor, then as long as the original temp sensor in the thermostat assembly is connected, then it should be fine and the one on the head can be ignored.

You really need to get TuneECU on it to see what is going on
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, good news finally. I found the TPS unplugged. It never was plugged in since I've had the bike because the locking clip was still in the connector. When I had the airbox off, I did find two connectors that weren't plugged in that still had the locking clips in them. One is the TPS, the other is a two prong plug with one brown wire and a yellow/red striped wire. In this pic, you can see the wiring is in the same section where the injector plugs come out.
It was hell to just see the TPS with the huge wiring harness covering it up so well. Once I plugged the TPS in it cranks and revs fine now. The idle rpm is right at 1100, and it doesn't like it that low. Engine light is on. Is there a manual idle adjustment on this throttle set up?
I also noticed when I had the battery cables disconnected, when re connecting the cables, there is a relay that clicks in and stays energized, draining the battery. Can someone tell me what this relay is with the white stripe on it in the pic, and why it is staying armed? This was marked like they were having previous issues with it.
Also, in the relay pic, there is a white plug in connector near the battery that has a jumper in it connecting two terminals in the connector, can you tell me what that is all about?
I appreciate all the help with this headache. I am glad to have gotten this far with it.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 03:38 AM
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Engine light is on because you have had ignition switched on with things disconnected (the TPS for sure and probably even the tank and air temp sensor I would bet at some point) - the light will go out - assuming you have resolved all the triggers that might set it to begin (& you probably have at this point) - after 3 complete warm-up/cool-down heat cycles of the engine - OR you can reset it with an OBD2 reader or TuneECU - if you plan to do any work on a Triumph EFI bike the latter is ESSENTIAL tool - would have saved you a lot of time & effort in diagnosing that TPS pretty much instantly.

The White connector is for an optional alarm - all Triumphs have this capability built-in - the bypass plug with the loop is to 'make' the (otherwise) immobilizer connection - without the bypass plug installed the bike will not run.

The Connector you identified is for the California-only fuel vapor emissions control equipment - in all other markets this would be unconnected (incidentally this is THE most asked question across these forums)

Idle speed - no manual adjustment - it is set by closed loop control by the ECU, adjusting the idle control valve position (& resultant air flow) to achieve the idle set-point - don't hold too much store in what the tach indicates, not that accurate down there. If idle is rough and appears low, you most likely need to balance the throttle bodies.
You will need a set of vacuum balance gauges to do that.

Relay on when battery connected:
The two headlight relays (one for high beam, one for low - incidentally these only apply to ONE of the lamps each [opposite lamps] - this is by design for markets that cannot have two lamps spaced next to each other, in which case relays are not installed in the sockets)
- these relays are NOT common or garden 'generic' automotive relays which are type B- they are supposed to be type A relays
The 86 & 30 terminals are transposed between types A & B;
If a type B relay is installed, it will appear as if the headlight control is working normally, switching the lamp on & off with key-switch
However as you have found, the relay will remain energized even when the ignition is off (this is because the constant power which normally supplies the 30 terminal is connected to 86 of relay coil - but since the ignition power is now (incorrectly) connected to the 30, the light will be off when the key is off, even though the relay itself is actually energized!)
Those two relays in the view you show - next to the Turn Signal Relay - should be the same - you can see even in pic that the one with the white mark is NOT original compared to the one in the centre.

Rayvin and Tri speed05 like this.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Okie doke, thank you for the detailed description on the relays, I'll look into that. After riding the bike a few miles, the idle is right up around 1400 where it is idling much better and the battery is actually charging.
This bike has a full D&D exhaust, and a K&N filter installed. I am assuming it has had a remap to run this good with the two mods. It is rather rich at part throttle in the 45-5500 range. It pulls hard up to redline when you're on the throttle.
The triple sounds like a bad ass with the D&D growling. Braaaaapp!
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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You are 100% correct on the relays, someone had put the wrong style in that socket. The bike uses the style in Pinout A switching relay where 87 and 86 are in line.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Can I do the 12 minute tune when the bike doesn't like to idle for the first few moments of firing up cold? Does the actual 12 minute tune begin at first start up, or after the cooling fan switches on for the first time?
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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So the 12 minute tune isn't for this bike?
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