02-07 S3/Daytona/Sprint Sprag Clutch Replacement Option - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 79 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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02-07 S3/Daytona/Sprint Sprag Clutch Replacement Option

Replacement Sprag review for 02-07 Speed Triple and Sprint and 02-06 Daytona

Anyone facing a Sprag Clutch replacement for the models above is looking at a $446 price ticket from Triumph - that is because the original model is no longer available and in order to fit the later Sprag, the Gear from the 07+ Speed Triple must also be fitted.
If you have an 07+ model, only the Sprag itself is required as the gear is obviously already that newer one. Cost for Sprag alone is $240 for those models.

The Replacement Sprag + Gear Kit has part number - T1221112 (this single 'kit' comprises both parts Sprag T1221111 and Gear T1221110)

The new Sprag (T1221111) will NOT fit on the orginal gear

Old gear had part number T1221102 and new gear is T1221110

Old Sprag was T1221105 and new one is T1221111.

This image shows the Old sprag & gear on the left and the new set on the right:
Note the new Sprag is quite a bit bigger - hopefully that means it is also more robust!
Although the new gear appears bigger in the image, it is actually same size, 51T.



The old parts are simply not available any longer, because the original Sprag was discontinued and the new one will not fit the old gear.

I was looking through Ebay to see if there was anything from another make/model was similar to the Triumph Sprag, that might be a replacement option. I found what looked visually at least to be a pretty good match between that used on Hayabusa and the Triumphs.
The sprag is very similar - but not quite identical

As a low-cost test, I purchased this bare sprag - http://www.ebay.com/itm/321852704992 - only $22 to do a test measurement/fit
(note this is an after-market part, not OEM)

When you compare the two, the Hayabusa part* came with a circlip on both sides, while the Triumph has on only one side;
* note that I am talking specifically here about the after-market part - not the actual Suzuki OEM part!

The cage looked (& measured) almost identically - however the Hayabusa (pattern) part was JUST too snug to fit in the housing;
talking about a matter of thou here - I wasn't sure if it was the cage or the circlip that was causing slight interference - get the impression if I was to dress it ever so slightly with a file it would drop in cleanly; actually I dropped the cage in when dis-assembled so I think it was maybe the little tangs on the circlip that were interfering.
But I decided to take them both apart and swap the races over retaining all the stock Triumph parts other than the sprag teeth and spring;
so what you see below is the Triumph part re-assembled with the new race and the left-over parts are the disassembled components of the Hayabusa Sprag with the old Triumph set of 'teeth' (for want of better word)

Will it work?
Who knows - figured it was worth splashing the $22 to see if it would at least fit.

This image shows the difference in the Triumph part - no circlip on that face, just on the bottom side vs the Hayabusa part with same cage/circlip on both sides. Top one is the pattern Hayabusa part, bottom one is Triumph - if you flip the Triumph one over, it looks just like the circlip face of the Suzuki part.



Second image shows the Hayabusa part taken apart and the Triumph re-assmbled.
So that re-assembled part now has the after-market sprag race in there



I get the feeling that the complete sprag will actually fit - the inner gear has same number of teeth - note that you must get the 08+ - the earlier one does not have the gap (the Triumph has same missing tooth as the later Hayabusa)



Note - that image above is after-market Hayabusa part from same manufacturer of that individual race

This image below is an OEM Hayabusa part which looks the same as the Triumph part - note that is has the clip-on cover and that the metal race is not a split circlip! (i.e. same as the Triumph)



At this point I am pretty sure that at least the race is the same size - the gear appears to be the same size but cannot know without measuring of actually fitting;
the other drawback of the Haybusa part as a whole is the timing mark - however potentially that can be overcome with just a couple of witness centre-punches on the crank and sprag.
I would also believe that possibly a better option than the 'new' $22 pattern race, would be a used complete Hayabusa Sprag and just swap the race over without disassembling - I have a good feeling it will fit and the difference is size was due to the pattern part being 'not quite right'

I also noted, in looking at bunch of pictures on Ebay, that the genuine Suzuki Sprag appears to be the same as the Triumph one, in only having the circlip on the one side . So again, believe it would 'drop in' to the Triumph housing (which additionally would mean it would retain the timing marks)
I see a couple of low price sprags on EBay - that would be the next test would be an OEM part and see if the part either fits completely or the actual sprag will just swap into the Triumph Gear Housing.
A lot of speculation above, although some of it reasonable.

Here's one more OEM Hayabusa pic I just found on EBay - this one shows the IDENTICAL 'NW' & '->' markings on the bearing same as the OEM Triumph
(If you compare this to OEM one in the second pic in this post you will see the same marks on that)
In the pic below, you will see the arrow where that pink section of the retainer is located; and the 'NW' is 180 opposite that.



This is the Triumph Sprag



In summary it appears that a Hayabusa Sprag clutch has the same dimensional Sprag Assembly as the Triumph;
The low cost after-market bare Sprag can fit, but requires disassembly and rebuilding of the bare Sprag itself;
A better option is to use an OEM Haybusa Sprag and swap the Sprag Bearing assembly into the Triumph Housing - note this has NOT been confirmed at time of writing, but I have reasonable confidence it will fit.
Downside of a used Haybusa part is its unknown condition - but with prices from $35 - $65 on EBay, might be worth the risk especially from reputable breaker with good return policy. A new hayabusa Sprag (OEM) is ~ $192 at discount Suzuki parts dealer (comprises Sprag plus Gear plus bearing - take notice of that price Triumph!!!)
And while I'm whining about Triumph prices - that Sprag Gear bearing - $50 Triumph, $21 Suzuki (both prices BikeBandit)

Finally please note that NEITHER of these options has actually been tested for operation in a Triumph engine.
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post #2 of 79 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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To swap between the OEM (important) Hayabusa and Triumph Housings:
(this is easier than the deeper disassembly I did with the $22 after-market part)

Both parts look like this



Pop the retainer off (just clipped on) both items

Swap the Sprag Race assembly from the Suzuki into the Triumph.

Clip the retainer back on.

Install the New Hybrid back into the bike and test it!
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post #3 of 79 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 04:51 AM
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Wow you're doing fantastic work here. I'm amazed how similar these parts are - looking at the OEM Suzuki and Triumph sprags, there's a good probability they run off the same production line.

One of the biggest shocks in running my 2005 versus the Jap bikes I've owned previously is the cost of parts - Triumph is a joke with parts cost.

I love that you're still working on this stuff for our older bikes. Definitely bookmarking this page.
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post #4 of 79 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:29 PM
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I'd be willing to try it out. Do you have a link to the ebay partyou think would fit?
tihs one has the extra set of teeth: ebay.com/itm/STARTER-CLUTCH-ONE-WAY-BEARING-Fits-SUZUKI-GSX1300R-GSX1300RZ-Hayabusa-2004-2016/271896508313?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkpa rms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3 D37470%26meid%3Db9a8cc6aaa0243be89abf90a5124e829%2 6pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D2914669119 44

2003 Speed Triple 955i
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post #5 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 02:33 PM
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What was the outcome of the test? Did the Suzuki part work?

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VIN...
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post #6 of 79 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 11:13 AM
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I can confirm that the direct swap of the OEM 'busa sprag assembly drops right in, and the bike is happy as a clam. I ordered a couple of the $22 bearings and I'm going to swap them into the original assembly and will let folks know if that seems to bolt up...likely not going to install it, as we're coming up on riding season, and it's working great...but I'll have it on the shelf and ready to go.

Thanks for the stellar DEcosse, as it has saved me a ton of $$ and frustration.
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post #7 of 79 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 03:30 AM
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Awesome, so glad someone followed through with this. This could have saved a lot of people a lot of money.
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post #8 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 01:17 AM
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Thanks so much for this work! Any replacement options for the sprag clutch #1221111and / or sprag gear #T1221110 (the updated ones)? I broke a couple teeth on the sprag gear, and $194.60 hurts for just the gear...

Thanks!

# cat life | grep joy >> memory

Onestep: "But my feelings and opinions matter just as much as your facts and experience."
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post #9 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 02:17 PM
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Sweet! Is this worth adding to the Repairs/Upgrades/etc sticky?
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post #10 of 79 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 10:57 AM
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Will this work on older bikes? T509 97 triple?
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