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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Adventurer starting Problem

Hi, I have a 2001 Adventurer which has become a pain to start when cold, this started last year and has got worse during the season, (the last time I flattened the battery and gave up as a winter project) the only way I could get it to start was choke full on for a couple of revolutions, choke off, no throttle and stab the button, it would fire and sometimes tick over long enough to slowly increase choke and throttle to run. Most times it wouldn't tick over and just die. Full choke again and try the again, it would never fire with the choke open, it seemed to flood (sorry never pulled a plug to confirm) so choke and throttle off and it would fire again, so on so on. When it was warm/ hot it would start ok!, never first stab but after a couple of revolutions, when running it was fine, no hesitation, would pull and red line and tick over.

So I have pulled the carbs, Mikiunis? fitted and checked and blown through every orifice, float levels I understand are 14.5mm, pasted a couple of photos showing how I interpret the 14.5mm to the bottom of float, not the ridge around the float?. Please confirm? The air filter/ box are all standard.

I am also checking valve gaps, (pasted below)

1ex is to tight
2ex is to big
3ex is ?

All inlets are tight, but in tolerance, change them??

The bike has had new coils, an Ignitech igniter with Irlmikes mapping,(4 years ago) the problem has only started last year and gradually got worse through the year.

Anything else to check/ adjust/ any thoughts??
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 01:00 AM
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Idle/Air Gaps on the carb slides? Might be completely closed off.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tburd97 View Post
Idle/Air Gaps on the carb slides? Might be completely closed off.
Air gap on the slides is 7mm, they slide easily and it does run and tick over when warm, mixture screws were 2 1/2 turns out.

Anyone have an opinion on the valve clearances? I have read to err on the +gap for the exhaust and - gap for the inlet.

Gaps should be 10 - 15mm inlet and 15 - 20 exhaust?
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 09:13 AM
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I really don't think your valve clearances are the issue, they look OK, but would certainly adjust the #2 exhausts since they are out of spec.

Start by pulling / inspecting all the plugs, replace them if they look questionable. Their condition will help diagnose what is going on with the bike.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bungees View Post
I really don't think your valve clearances are the issue, they look OK, but would certainly adjust the #2 exhausts since they are out of spec.

Start by pulling / inspecting all the plugs, replace them if they look questionable. Their condition will help diagnose what is going on with the bike.
Plugs are NGK DPR8EA9, about 4000 miles/ 1 year old. they have a staining around the porcelain which I have not noticed before? (especially no. 3)

As I said before the bike runs well when it starts.
Pics of more plugs
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 10:59 AM
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Any valve clearance that is too tight should be corrected ASAP. When a valve is too tight it spends less time closed, can't dissipate heat properly, and eventually burns.

Valves that are too loose are less critical, but will adversely affect the volumetric efficiency of the engine and can eventually lead to valve stem mushrooming.

John
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 12:03 PM
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Cut and paste from here

What are you getting?

Starting System Symptoms:

Weak battery symptoms:
-- Slow cranking.
-- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
-- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
Repair:
-- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
Failure Modes:
-- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
-- Won't hold a charge.
-- Low voltage/cell failure.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Check fluid levels regularly
-- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
-- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
-- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
-- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
Repair:
-- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
Failure Mode:
-- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None
Testing:

Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
-- No spark at all
-- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
-- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
Repair:
-- Replace pickup coil
Failure mode:
-- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None. Get a spare.
Testing:
-- Ohms checks hot and cold.

Worn starter symptoms:
-- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
-- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
Failure Mode:
-- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
-- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
Repair:
-- Rebuild or replace.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintain battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
-- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
-- Very loud rattling when cranking
-- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
Falure Mode:
-- Breakage
Repair:
-- Replace sprag clutch
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintain battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

Worn starter solenoid:
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
-- Won't crank after rocking bike.
-- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
Failure mode:
-- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
-- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
-- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None.
Repair:
-- Replace starter solenoid.
Testing:
-- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gassa View Post
Plugs are NGK DPR8EA9, about 4000 miles/ 1 year old. they have a staining around the porcelain which I have not noticed before? (especially no. 3)

As I said before the bike runs well when it starts.
Pics of more plugs
Thanks. I was wondering if they might be fouling. The insulator stains are electromagnetic coronal stains - harmless. Make sure you torque the plugs to spec though as it can be an indicator of blowby.

I'm wondering if you might have a spark timing issue causing the hard starting. I'm not very familiar with the Ignitech unit, but have heard they can do that. But Irlmikes settings are supposed to be pretty solid in that regard. Still, maybe some tweaking might help?

bungees

Last edited by bungees; 01-12-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bungees View Post

I'm wondering if you might have a spark timing issue causing the hard starting. I'm not very familiar with the Ignitech unit, but have heard they can do that. But Irlmikes settings are supposed to be pretty solid in that regard. Still, maybe some tweaking might help?
Check the gap on the Pickup Coil. That might cause the symptom you are having if that is too large??

Cheers,Denny
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WSC View Post
Any valve clearance that is too tight should be corrected ASAP. When a valve is too tight it spends less time closed, can't dissipate heat properly, and eventually burns.

Valves that are too loose are less critical, but will adversely affect the volumetric efficiency of the engine and can eventually lead to valve stem mushrooming.
Any valves within tolerance leave, all the inlets are just in, so in my case re-shim the 2 exhaust?
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