After going through the fuel system and wiring on my 1998 t595, serial # 67987, I can get it to fire up and run ok for about 2-3 seconds then it slowly dies out. I routed the vacuum lines as per DeCosse. Repaired the wiring for the crank position sensor and coolant temp sensor. no other breaks were found. I replaced the fuel pump and filter with a kemso pump and Mahle filter. cleaned the injectors out
I got the TuneEcu cable yesterday and connected it to the ECM. The engine light had old codes for fuel pump connection and fuel injector connections. Cleared the codes and they did not come back. I was able to load the 9862 map since I have the TORS low pipe. the ECM had 9856 loaded to it. still only runs for a few seconds at a time. seems to run on 3 cylinders for about 2 seconds, then drops to 2 then 1 then dies.
I tried resetting the TPS. it said it was reset but I cant tell. on the test section of TuneEcu everything I can test is working (fan, fuel pump idle control valve etc). one strange thing is under the diagnostics tab when I turn the throttle it only goes to an indicated 67% is this normal? TPS is regitering between .55 volts at 0% and 4.0 volts wide open (indicated 67% ob the TuneEcu diagnostics screen)
At this point I am stumped and don't know where to go next
The following link will show a video of what it sounds like when starting
Well, you need fuel, air and spark. Air is probably not the issue, so it is either ignition or fuel. From the way it sounds, I would suspect either something in the fuel maps (some of the maps available for mine will simply not idle worth a darn), or a fueling issue. I would check fuel pressures. I made an adapter fuel line kit so I can tap my fuel pressure gauge to the Triumph quick disconnects to check pressures.
... one strange thing is under the diagnostics tab when I turn the throttle it only goes to an indicated 67% is this normal? TPS is regitering between .55 volts at 0% and 4.0 volts wide open (indicated 67% ob the TuneEcu diagnostics screen)
Well, you can ................ just not on the diagnostic screen
Open the MapEdit screen and click on the Fuel Tab
You will see a highlight on the TPS axis - open the throttle and the highlight should track all the way to 100% on the axis.
Certainly check the CPS gap as suggested - and while checking that, might not be bad idea just to whip the cam cover off and validate the valve timing is good.
If you open throttle just a hair, does it continue to run or still die?
When it dies after a few seconds, can you immediately restart with same behaviour repeatedly?
It sounds like a fuel issue
You don't have the Fuel Pressure Regulator hooked up to anything other then the airbox (or just left unconnected is OK too)?
It certainly doesn't connect to the IACV manifold (Not suggesting that is necessarily the case, just covering that base)
On paper 9862 should be the correct map.
Can you try to get a screen capture of the Diag screen with all tabs on left expanded in that few seconds where it's running (ALT+Prnt Scrn will copy the active TuneECU screen and then you can 'paste' into an image editor)
I can try to do a screen shot. will be tomorrow tho.
And yes, it will restart immediately after it dies and then run for a few more seconds.
If I give it any throttle it dies immediately
I doubt it skipped timing as it ran perfectly when parked 9 years ago before the mice got to the wiring and vacuum lines. CPS gap might make sense to look at. how difficult is it to check?
As for the fuel pressure regulator the outside nipple is open, nothing on it. it was attached to the airbox but the pipe came off as I was putting the bike back together
TPS voltage a little on the low side - should be in range 0.55 to 0.65 (centred on 0.6V)
The difference when its running (0.53) is probably the vacuum pulling them closed just a little tighter.
Adjust it up a bit and reset it for the ECU to learn/calibrate to the new position
Not sure about the injector pulses - without seeing it real-time, those lower numbers could be just a function of the timing of when you captured the screen shots - you'll have a better idea yourself of just looking at it 'live'
And same with the idle speed - it really depends on the moment of capture I think - or is really 'hunting' that badly? The 1560 would be about right for a 'cold' engine and being controlled by the IACV to about that.
Have you run it with the airbox off? Any difference? (just to eliminate any airflow obstruction)
Don't know how I missed the video link before ..............
At the very moment it starts, it sounds like it's really good and immediately falls off. And it is starting really easily too!
Can you try opening the throttle just a small fraction (don't try to rev it, just crack it open a tiny bit just to see if will run with slightly more air than just the IACV is able to provide) - or just put a small shim in the stop to achieve the same thing. That would help to eliminate an IACV problem
(note that air to fuel the engine at idle comes from two sources, the IACV and past the throttles which are not actually completely closed.
It might also give a good clue as to how the engine deals with that SLIGHTLY more air - if it dies more quickly it might suggest a lack of fuel.
When it is running even for those few seconds, does it smell rich?
It does smell rich when it runs which is strange because it is acting like it is starving for fuel. I have the quick disconnects coming monday so i can check the fuel pressure.
If I give it any throttle whatsoever it dies immediately. if i try starting it with a slightly cracked throttle it seems to crank faster but it will not fire.
The injector pulses are around 11-12 when it first fires up and runs well, then they trail off as it sputters and dies.
I haven't tired running it with the airbox off yet, but wont that cause an issue with the IACV since it is connected to the breather tube coming from the airbox?
And how do I adjust the TPS up a bit? haven't seen that setting in TuneEcu and the Haynes manual says it needs to be performed with the triumph diagnostic tool
If its smelling rich and a slight throttle opening kills it, it may be starved of air.
Have you checked inside the box at all? Inspected/Changed the filter? No mice nests in there?
Just leave the IACV input hose disconnected from the airbox - it will still pull air through it. In fact even before you pull the airbox, you can probably just pull that hose off anyway and see if it makes any difference - then at least the IACV would be seeing unrestricted flow (won't make any difference as you open the throttles, but at least can see if make difference at idle, no throttle)
(if you remove the box completely, you'll also have to reconnect the Air intake temp and Air pressure sensors)
You have to physically manually adjust the TPS - a couple of Torx screws and you can rotate it - use TuneECU to set it to the correct voltage as you move it.
I dont have enough time today to pull the tank and airbox to get to the TPS or to try running without the airbox.
I did inspect it thoroughly when it was off earlier for nests and installed a new air filter element. Also i made sure there were no kinks in the intake tubes of the airbox.
I did disconnect the breather tube from the IACV and tried starting as you suggested. It would fire up but only run for maybe 1/2 of a second then immediately cut off and it did this each time. When reconnecting the breather hose back onto the IACV it would fire up and run for 5 or 6 seconds before cutting off again.
... I did disconnect the breather tube from the IACV and tried starting as you suggested. It would fire up but only run for maybe 1/2 of a second then immediately cut off and it did this each time. When reconnecting the breather hose back onto the IACV it would fire up and run for 5 or 6 seconds before cutting off again.
Well that's an interesting piece of data -
Try plugging the nipple from where the hose was removed and see if reverts to the 5-6 secs running
(you can ziptie clutch lever to bar so it keeps switch closed, then one finger or thumb over the airbox nipple while you thumb starter with other hand)
If it does remove finger and see if it's pulling air through that orifice - if it is it maybe suggests you are not free-flowing through the box/filter
I didnt remove the breather tube at the airbox end. I removed it at the iacv end. Does this make a difference? I can't reach the airbox end of it with the fuel tank installed.
There is another clue in what you said. I am focusing on when you say "It cuts off". When it dies, does it seem to die because it is lacking something, like loosing fuel, too much fuel, air problem, or, does it die abruptly like it was shut off with a key? There may be a problem lurking where the computer (or a wiring/relay fault) can actually be shutting down the engine. Some engines shut down if oil pressure is too low (wiring/sender fault?). Something to think about.
... When it dies, does it seem to die because it is lacking something, like loosing fuel, too much fuel, air problem, or, does it die abruptly like it was shut off with a key? ...
@AdventurePS - watch the video from link in the opening post
You will see that it starts quite well and almost immediately starts to struggle to stay alive and appears like it is running out of either fuel or air, rather than an electrical cut-off.
Well either fuel or air -
I don't see how it should have made any difference with the iacv disconnected from airbox so fact it does suggests something going on with air supply
Try to do that last test I suggested to see if you're pulling air through that hose and creating vacuum when you seal it
I think I may have just found the issue by looking at some pics i took when taking the fuel pump out. what looks like rust on the back of the plate was just heavy varnish that cleaned up really well but I didn't catch the hole in the hard line coming from the fuel pressure regulator. Unless my eyes are deceiving me,, it definitely looks like a hole in that pipe
Surprised it even primed. Time for a rebuild. Filter, rubber bits, all of it. Did mine with a Kemso pump kit off ebay and a mahle filter. The submerged hoses are nothing special, just FI rated.
That pic was before reinstall. I replaced the pump and filter with a kesmo and mahle pieces and replaced the fuel lines and vacuum tubes as well. I didnt see that hole in the metal line coming off the pressure regulator housing tho. It cleaned up so well I just didn't notice it
is that metal line replaceable or do i need an entire pump housing?
I saw one on ebay in decent shape but the disconnects woild need to be replaced and another one on ebay that was in rough shape that didnt even have disconnects just plastic barbed elbows. A new plate from triumph is $250. Does the factory replacement plate come with new fittings?
The rubber hose you saw in that picture i had to cut it to get the pump out of the tank because the rubber was so inflexible and also i wanted to bring a sample with me to the parts store to get the right size.
It's under pressure, about 45psi. Brazing in a new section would be the parts irreplaceable, repair route. Better to get a used plate off ebay, and new fuel fitting from Triumph or Fresh Water.
Failure in there strands the bike, not a place for short cuts,imo.
I would think the T595 plate is interchangeable with several other models and years.
Just be careful as to which plate you buy - - you have a 10-bolt pump; that was only used on the 97/98 T595 and T509 Speed Triple - they went to 14 bolt from 99 on.
So be sure that you are looking at the correct fit for your tank. It's not simply that there are 'extra' holes, the layout of them is different.
p.s. you could also convert it to a single line system (like the 06 Daytona 955) - you need the Fuel Pressure Regulator from a single line system and cap the return end of the fuel rail (and of course the return on the pump plate)
p.s. you could also convert it to a single line system (like the 06 Daytona 955) - you need the Fuel Pressure Regulator from a single line system and cap the return end of the fuel rail (and of course the return on the pump plate)
Trust me, I saw that one. It is 99 Canadian for the part plus 46 Canadian for the shipping and it won't get here before I move out of state. There is another one out of Illinois I have my eye on that I made an offer to the buyer on that I will have to replace the dry break connectors on.
I still can't believe I missed that hole in the metal pipe when I was cleaning the mounting plate. I was so methodical on all the lines and fittings when I was putting everything back together I just cant believe it.
On another note. I tried running the bike with my finger over the breather tube and when running there was a little suction coming from the breather tube. I put my finger over the nipple on the IACV and there was a LOT of suction coming from there. Not sure if that means anything however.
On a side note it looks like there were 2 different 10 bolt fuel pump mounting plates. one has a rubber hose connector on the hard line coming off the pressure regulator and one like mine that has a solid hard line all the way from the pressure regulator to the return dry break connector. Triumph really had some wacky ways of doing things back then!
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