1998 t595 daytona still not running right - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
Grand Prix 125
Main Motorcycle: 1998 Daytona T595
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1998 t595 daytona still not running right

After going through the fuel system and wiring on my 1998 t595, serial # 67987, I can get it to fire up and run ok for about 2-3 seconds then it slowly dies out. I routed the vacuum lines as per DeCosse. Repaired the wiring for the crank position sensor and coolant temp sensor. no other breaks were found. I replaced the fuel pump and filter with a kemso pump and Mahle filter. cleaned the injectors out

I got the TuneEcu cable yesterday and connected it to the ECM. The engine light had old codes for fuel pump connection and fuel injector connections. Cleared the codes and they did not come back. I was able to load the 9862 map since I have the TORS low pipe. the ECM had 9856 loaded to it. still only runs for a few seconds at a time. seems to run on 3 cylinders for about 2 seconds, then drops to 2 then 1 then dies.

I tried resetting the TPS. it said it was reset but I cant tell. on the test section of TuneEcu everything I can test is working (fan, fuel pump idle control valve etc). one strange thing is under the diagnostics tab when I turn the throttle it only goes to an indicated 67% is this normal? TPS is regitering between .55 volts at 0% and 4.0 volts wide open (indicated 67% ob the TuneEcu diagnostics screen)

At this point I am stumped and don't know where to go next

The following link will show a video of what it sounds like when starting

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qFHbM1Mem5TdvzfE9

Thank you for any help!!
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 01:13 PM
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Well, you need fuel, air and spark. Air is probably not the issue, so it is either ignition or fuel. From the way it sounds, I would suspect either something in the fuel maps (some of the maps available for mine will simply not idle worth a darn), or a fueling issue. I would check fuel pressures. I made an adapter fuel line kit so I can tap my fuel pressure gauge to the Triumph quick disconnects to check pressures.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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You don't see 100% throttle on TuneECU. The other numbers seem fine. Maybe the valve timing is off or the air gap for the CPS is off.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 05:50 PM
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Or the iac is sticking, or there are vacuum leaks?

Random thoughts:

Need to methodically start at one end and work to the other.

Manual for troubleshooting ?

When starting mine with a new tune, wouldn't hold idle at first. Had to hold throttle a bit open.

OOh looke a custom signature !
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by string1824 View Post
... one strange thing is under the diagnostics tab when I turn the throttle it only goes to an indicated 67% is this normal? TPS is regitering between .55 volts at 0% and 4.0 volts wide open (indicated 67% ob the TuneEcu diagnostics screen)
Those are good normal readings - the dial/digital on the Diag screen are not showing % of throttle opening but % of voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felony View Post
You don't see 100% throttle on TuneECU...
Well, you can ................ just not on the diagnostic screen

Open the MapEdit screen and click on the Fuel Tab
You will see a highlight on the TPS axis - open the throttle and the highlight should track all the way to 100% on the axis.

Certainly check the CPS gap as suggested - and while checking that, might not be bad idea just to whip the cam cover off and validate the valve timing is good.

If you open throttle just a hair, does it continue to run or still die?
When it dies after a few seconds, can you immediately restart with same behaviour repeatedly?
It sounds like a fuel issue
You don't have the Fuel Pressure Regulator hooked up to anything other then the airbox (or just left unconnected is OK too)?
It certainly doesn't connect to the IACV manifold (Not suggesting that is necessarily the case, just covering that base)

On paper 9862 should be the correct map.

Can you try to get a screen capture of the Diag screen with all tabs on left expanded in that few seconds where it's running (ALT+Prnt Scrn will copy the active TuneECU screen and then you can 'paste' into an image editor)
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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I can try to do a screen shot. will be tomorrow tho.

And yes, it will restart immediately after it dies and then run for a few more seconds.

If I give it any throttle it dies immediately

I doubt it skipped timing as it ran perfectly when parked 9 years ago before the mice got to the wiring and vacuum lines. CPS gap might make sense to look at. how difficult is it to check?

As for the fuel pressure regulator the outside nipple is open, nothing on it. it was attached to the airbox but the pipe came off as I was putting the bike back together
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:26 PM
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For the CPS you would need to remove the clutch cover and procure a new gasket.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Grand Prix 125
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I was able to get some screenshots of TuneEcu

The first one was before cranking
https://www.triumphrat.net/attachmen...645560&thumb=1
Second image was just after it fired
https://www.triumphrat.net/attachmen...645562&thumb=1
third image was taken about 5 seconds later
https://www.triumphrat.net/attachmen...645564&thumb=1
4th image was taken just before it shut off
https://www.triumphrat.net/attachmen...645566&thumb=1
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	645566  
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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TPS voltage a little on the low side - should be in range 0.55 to 0.65 (centred on 0.6V)
The difference when its running (0.53) is probably the vacuum pulling them closed just a little tighter.
Adjust it up a bit and reset it for the ECU to learn/calibrate to the new position

Not sure about the injector pulses - without seeing it real-time, those lower numbers could be just a function of the timing of when you captured the screen shots - you'll have a better idea yourself of just looking at it 'live'

And same with the idle speed - it really depends on the moment of capture I think - or is really 'hunting' that badly? The 1560 would be about right for a 'cold' engine and being controlled by the IACV to about that.

Have you run it with the airbox off? Any difference? (just to eliminate any airflow obstruction)

Don't know how I missed the video link before ..............

At the very moment it starts, it sounds like it's really good and immediately falls off. And it is starting really easily too!
Can you try opening the throttle just a small fraction (don't try to rev it, just crack it open a tiny bit just to see if will run with slightly more air than just the IACV is able to provide) - or just put a small shim in the stop to achieve the same thing. That would help to eliminate an IACV problem
(note that air to fuel the engine at idle comes from two sources, the IACV and past the throttles which are not actually completely closed.
It might also give a good clue as to how the engine deals with that SLIGHTLY more air - if it dies more quickly it might suggest a lack of fuel.

When it is running even for those few seconds, does it smell rich?
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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It does smell rich when it runs which is strange because it is acting like it is starving for fuel. I have the quick disconnects coming monday so i can check the fuel pressure.

If I give it any throttle whatsoever it dies immediately. if i try starting it with a slightly cracked throttle it seems to crank faster but it will not fire.

The injector pulses are around 11-12 when it first fires up and runs well, then they trail off as it sputters and dies.

I haven't tired running it with the airbox off yet, but wont that cause an issue with the IACV since it is connected to the breather tube coming from the airbox?

And how do I adjust the TPS up a bit? haven't seen that setting in TuneEcu and the Haynes manual says it needs to be performed with the triumph diagnostic tool

Thanks for your help!!
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