Daytona 1075 R - Page 2 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Daytona Deliberations For owners and riders of Daytona 900, 955, 1000 & 1200

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
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Ignition Questions

Ill need to make changes to the ignition map once I have the cams and pistons installed to get the most from this configuration.

Using Tune ECU Iíve compared the two curves for the 955 and the 1050 engines and there is a fair difference on the graphical curves. Iíve written a spreadsheet to enable me to map the Sagemís 955i curve into the Keihin 1050 ECU however Iím unclear if I can do a straight copy of the map through as the two curves appear to be using different parameters. The Keihin map uses Throttle Position % while the Sagem system uses engine load %. Given there is only one atmospheric pressure sensor a cannot help think that the there must be link between the throttle position and the engine load for this Sagem ECU.

I plan to data-log my 955i using load, ignition and throttle position but just wanted to check if any forum users had experience of using the 955i cams in 1050 engines and what they did with their ignition timing curves in the Keihin ECU?
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:38 PM
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I like how detailed this build is. You seem to cover every base and take every precaution. Awesome inspiration to my project.

I have done more or less the same with mine, but doesn't have to deal with the fairings as I am making a Sprint ST "Daytona".

Mods to date: head ported, daytona headers, daytona cams, increased compression by shaving of 0,6mm, velocity stacks, KN filter, daytona valve springs, ported++ throttle bodies, 18/45 gearing and Carrillo rods.

Went with the Daytona cams at 104/105, seems to work fine. The bike is still strong at 2500 rpm with around 90 Nm, peaking at 7750 rpm with 116 Nm. Daytona 1075 R-20190507_184947_1558283895378.jpg

With the Daytona cams, the peak power is not reached. So lifting the redline is a must. I went to 9900, but won't go above that until better pistons are in it.

I use PC5 for fuel, and to save cost on the dyno. With PC5 and autotune, the dynorun only managed to get an additional 2 rwhp out of the bike. So, very happy with the autotune function.

My aim is to get between 170-175 rwhp out of the bike. And around 125 Nm.

So far 150.55 rwhp, have a lot more to do, so my goal is not that far away. Lift the redline, bigger bore and get it breathing better should bring it in the 170 rwhp area.

I have no issues pulling this engine all the way to 11000 with better pistons. From what I can understand from the various forums I have visited, the max piston velocity is only theoretical. Engines have been built with piston velocities of over 50 m/s, as long as the hardware can take it. Good connecting rods and pistons designed for racing, should be able to take the extra forces from an increased limiter.

The extra velocity does increase the friction between the piston and the cylinder walls, resulting in a loss of power in the upper rev range. To battle this, I will look into getting coated cylinder sleeves.

So far not done anything to the ignition, probably do this when all the mods are done.

I was not aware that tuneecu have maps going above 9900, I was looking into getting a gadget that I could adjust the limiter 20%. But if there is a map that can use, then that is much better.

What numbers are you expecting on the dyno?

Cheers,

Kristian
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 06:12 PM
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cheers,

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 09:56 PM
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What Phil said.............
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the update on your bike Kristian. I do try and record logically so others can copy.

My contact for the big bore sent me the photos of the jig he made up for the 80mm bore. The liner slides in the bottom plate down to the machined face and the recess in the top plate sits over the liner flange, its then clamped up in the machine replicating its fitted state in the crankcase with the cylinder head in place. And then Bored. He could do the same for you now he's made the Jig. Contact him direct at [email protected].

If you need to post anything I'm happy to help.

I've checked the bores now with rings and they are spot on for the gaps so engine is out and work starting. Checked at from the base to avoid damage

Regarding the rev limit, you should have seen Alain from TUNE ECU provided me special DLL file for the computer to allow me t change the rev limit. Its special for my map and bike but the last computer based Tune ECU seems to let me change all map rev limits. What map are you using? Ill see if I can change this one and let you know. I cam then send you copy of the DLLs file privately
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 04:30 PM
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Thank you for your offers to help with posting.

The map I run, is a modified 20175 map. It's more or less standard, as the Power commander sorts out the fuel.

Would you mind sending the DLLs? I could see if I am able to change the rev limiter. Would be awesome if that works.

Ordered my pistons from dpengineparts a few days ago, they were surprisingly cheap. He even promised the pistons and pins would cope fine with 11000 rpm. They should be here in just over a month or so, so still have a bit of time to get the sleeves bored. (Good tip with kmbengltd.com). I can't start pulling the engine apart yet, as I have another dragrace in the weekend, and then off for a holiday to Florida.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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More than happy to help. I'll message you privately. Will be good to have two bikes almost the same. I'll use your timing as it's easy to do.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 05:48 PM
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Don't you 2 hold out on us!
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cheers,

Phil
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:14 PM
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Just a quick update from my dragrace weekend. Starting to "learn" the Daytona cams now, and I have found out a few things. #1 Daytona cams make the bike very difficult to lauch at the strip, high revs and a lot of cluch-control. #2 makes the bike sound awesome at the burnout. #3 most important, the cams makes the bike slower. If only increasing the revlimiter to 9900, the usable power is less compared to standard cams. This weekend, I was only able to get down to 7,6 @ 201m, standard cams, 7,4 @ 201m both with about the same 60', around 1.9 sec and of 158kph top speed. So, for those who are thinking of just changing cams, don't. Next race, I hopefully have the new pistons, revlimiter set to 11000+ and a shift light. I am sure a lot of people go a lot faster than that on their 1050s, but they are not 198cm and 110kg. Did manage to win the whole thing and I am currently the leader of the national cup. Of 110 bikes, only one Triumph.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Your experience seems to bear out the recommendations I was given by eccoss/read on varies forums. That without lifting the rev range you are better with the simpler 955 exhaust cam to inlet swap I did on the first iteration of my bike ( plus you don't have to take the engine out).
I did find I got better driveability at lower revs than my 2008 speed triple but it missed the final push that I see in the 955i. Interesting I bought the new RS and that had the two characters combined (and revs to 11200). So if triumph can do it!! However look at the cam timing and lift from earlier in my notes for the RS. It's almost two 955 inlet cams (which I'm told work well at 104 and 109 timings).

So more to think about. And I've still got to sort timing as the standard S3 stuff cannot be right for the higher lift longer duration cams
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