2002 Daytona 955i won't start - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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Main Motorcycle: 02 Triumph Daytona 955i
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2002 Daytona 955i won't start

I bought this about a year ago and she's been a great bike. I use her most days for work, unless the weather is really bad. She had only 8K miles when I got her and she's done about 18K miles now.

We had a lot of stow this Christmas time, so she spent about a month in the garage, running fine when parked up. I started her up each weekend for good measure. I noted that the battery was week in this period and replaced it. I also noted the cause was the charging system and did that rewire idea and now the RR is giving out about 14.5v instead of 12.5 as before, so this battery should last. She still started up fine at this point.

When the weather cleared, the Sunday before I intended to use her, I turned her over, but she didn't want to catch, though she was trying. With lots a throttle and patience I eventually got her to cough into life, but she was misfiring, backfiring and sounded generally rubbish. I took the tank off, checked plugs and found that no.1 was very wet, so I cleaned her up, used some wet-start, put her back together, but she still wasn't right, though better. I took the injectors out, plugs out, air filter out and all looked fine, except the plugs looked a bit sooty. I eventually discovered a slight weep from the fuel lines to the tank and found that when I pushed it tighter and held it, the engine note would improve. I felt confident I'd found the problem then, so ordered a new set of o rings for the fuel lines. For good measure I also ordered a new set of o rings for the injectors, plugs, fuel filter and new seals for the coil packs, which I think was all the original problem was.

These arrived yesterday and I put them all on, turned the key and for the first time in ages she fired up without throttle. 20-30 seconds later she faded away and wouldn't re-start. She wouldn't even think about starting again. The starter was brisk, the clocks lit up, the fuel pump would prime, the fuses are all fine, I checked and checked that everything was plugged back in, etc, but wouldn't start. I took her apart again and checked the plugs and they were still clean. Checked them for sparks and they did spark. I took the injectors out and placed some cloth in front of them and turned her over and saw 3 lovely little splotches of petrol. I checked compression and this wasn't far short of original spec on all cylinders. I plugged in a dealertool and this showed no faults logged by the ECU. The throttle body seems to work as normal.

If you have fuel, spark, air and compression, how can it not even try to fire. I even tried squirting some extra fuel in the throttle body, but still nothing. If I hadn't checked the plugs, I'd be sure it was them, but I've seen them spark.

I nearly lost it last night, when I noted I'd put a few small scratches on the front of the tank, from taking it off and putting it back on again about 50 times.

I can only assume that something I've done has upset something else, but what?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 04:30 AM
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Looks like you have checked most stuff, what I would say is that, when I am faced with this kind of situation, you have 2 choices.
Either something has gone wrong spontaneously, OR you have made a mistake in something you have done.

Personally it always turns out to be the second option.... So my recommendation would be to go through methodically everything you have touched and check your work.

I would concentrate on the fuel delivery, as would seem that you changed most stuff in this area, and the symptoms (starting and then dying) would relate to this. Only additional thing to check maybe a blocked fuel filter in the tank, or something preventing enough fuel to get to the injectors. Oh and you could check the tank breather is not blocked.

Last edited by DaveG; 01-29-2010 at 04:33 AM.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 05:14 AM
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my first thought too was fuel filter
or possibly fuel pump relay or ECM relay problems
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 09:28 AM
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illbo, Please edit your profile to show the model year of your Daytona.

When the key is first turned to the run position you should hear the fuel pump prime, do you?

You should have more than little splotchs of fuel from the injectors. Replace the fuel filter (BMW p/n 11 42 1 460 845 is less expensive) and the spring clips with hose clamps.

Brad

PS Always a possibility the fuel has turned sour or is contaminated with water from condensation.

Last edited by bradtx; 01-29-2010 at 09:40 AM. Reason: PS
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy

Thanks for all the replies. With those in mind I had another crack tonight.

Checked everything I'd messed with and couldn't see anything a miss.

I checked all the plugs for sparks again and they seemed fine.
I checked the injectors again and they still made splotches on a cloth, about 2" round after a few seconds, which seems okay I think.
I re-charged the battery last night and that was showing a 13.2v
Yes the fuel pump does prime. I tried priming it several times before ignition, to make sure the fuel rail was well charged.
No fuel leaks.
I checked the vents and hoses for blockages and they all seemed clear, I even blew though them to make sure - lovely
I tried swapping the 4 relays around in case one was duff, but didn't notice any changes.
I checked the compression again and still okay.
I checked in the tank and the new fuel filter was still all connected up and everything.

What really gets me is that it doesn't even think about firing. The instruments light up, the fuel pump primes, the starter turns briskly, but that's it.

Could it be that the fuel pump or regulator got damaged when she was leaking fuel and now she just isn't putting out enough?

Could it be the ECU just getting the sequencing so wrong that she can't fire any more? Need a remap or replacement?

Could it be the main relay next to the battery? It's the only odd one so not so easy to test.

All it can think now is to try replacing more stuff.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illbo View Post
Could it be the ECU just getting the sequencing so wrong that she can't fire any more? Need a remap or replacement?
No

Quote:
Could it be that the fuel pump or regulator got damaged when she was leaking fuel and now she just isn't putting out enough?
Possible - only really way to check is pressure test.

Usually you will get at least a 'fire' if you put some starter fluid or gas straight down the TB's
If it won't fire like that it's an ignition problem
If it does, it's a fuel problem.

Have you pulled the plugs again since replacement?
Once plugs are fouled on these things they are bear to start - especially if you keep trying and soak them repeatedly

Pull plugs and clean/replace and test again for spark
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2010, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy

Cheers.

I did take a couple of plugs out again and they looked pretty clean really - wiped them anyway. I tested all for sparks and they all did, even with the older plugs.

I tried putting a bit of petrol down the TB yesterday and it did nothing - didn't try this again today though. I only put down a few ml though - stingy?

Although I seen the injectors shooting petrol, when I'm cranking her she never seems to smell that bad, though I don't have a good nose

The sparks looked good, so it must be fuel surely.

This is the fuel filter I used: -
http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/tige...145-1522-p.asp

Couldn't be it could it?

I could try picking up a used pump. Anyone know which bikes are could take this from, apart from the same one. I'm guessing speed triple and sprint for the same period.

Cheers
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Question

I've just tried putting petrol down the TB again and nothing. I kept squerting petrol down until it fluded, but not even a hint of a fire.

I took the plugs out again to check for sparks and they all do and they're all clean still, apart from wet with petrol by this point.

The petrol test would seem to rule out a fuel problem, so it must be ignition. I have sparks, but could they just not be adequote? What else could I test?
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 08:57 AM
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illbo, Were the valves clearanced at 12K? Tight clearances can cause no starts.

Brad
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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The valve clearences haven't been checked yet. Wouldn't poor valve clearence cause poor compression?

I've just had another crack, just repeating what I've done really, but this time it did fire up for a few moments

It faded away, so I tried again with a bit of throttle to hold it, but it didn't make much difference. After a few goes it wouldn't go any more. So I guess the plugs are now fouled again or she's fludded. I can rule out fludding by trying again a bit later.

I'm thinking the ignition is okay with this result, all agree?

This being the case I'm thinking fuel starvation or air. I haven't found any blocked pipes or anything, so I'm back to a weak fuel pump, I think, or dodgy new fuel filter.
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