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Hard to start Bonnie

3K views 35 replies 11 participants last post by  KADUTZ 
#1 ·
My 79 T140E is difficult to start. I’m using fresh premium Shell with an octane booster. The battery is new (but a cheap one). The carb’s cold start lever and click spring may be part of the problem. The lever does not stay down when depressed during starting. It wants to pop back up to its original position. Is this normal?
What else do I need to do to get a reliable starting bike?
 
#4 ·
Only got a second right now from old posts you are in Ky with a 79 T140E.


Your carbs are out of alignment.
Until you get that fixed take a piece of wood about 3/16-1/4" and slide it under the lever while starting and warming up. An alternative method is to use a car key that has a flat side with the cut side up. An old favorite was a GM key when these bikes were new.

K
 
#8 ·
Push the lever down and use something to hold it in the down position when starting the engine. I used a screw driver until I got the parts to correct it.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Really sorry my explanation was less than clear.

As Peg said T140E's with MKII carbs are easy starters when everything is OK. Unfortunately the US models came from the factory with a colder heart than a pissed off Morther-In-Law due to the EPA mandated jetting.

If your enrichner lever will not stay in the 'on' position once depressed and you try to hold it down while kickstarting the machine you WILL bend the lever to the point of being useless. This is why the piece of wood / key solution came about.

While I have talked some guys thru the procedure so they understand it is to difficult to do on a Forum where the abilities / knowledge of the person involved is an unknown factor. Therefore my usual suggestion is change the jetting to Euro Specs & change the enrichners to handle bar operation. Not inexpensive but effective.

The move to handle bar operation will require new & a slightly different enrichner. But I will bet your present ones are shot anyway.

As far as your present set up there was a Factory Service Bulletin issued regarding the lever operation. I will try to post the details later if time permits.

K
 
#10 ·
Hi wrench-head,
The carb is kept on by a small spung steel strip held in place by the cold start, these can become misaligned, but mostly they get weak- for the cost of them I wouldn’t muck about, just replace them. £3.00 each in the UK. You don’t say where you are from, but I think I can detect a bit of a Canadian accent in you; you might try Brit Cycle Supply in Nova Scotia if this is the case.
A new pair of choke spring strips usually does the trick. (Item 12 below)

T140E’s are easy starters if everything is OK, I have found they like enrichment for starting, even if warm.

I place the enrichment devices on, pull air/fuel through for one engine revolution with the ignition off.
Bring the pistons just over TDC, Then switch the ignition on, and take a long follow through kick, as you feel the engine fire ‘catch’ the startup with a little throttle. It should start first time every time.

If it does not I would check some of the maintenance items:
Ignition timing, head torque, valve clearances, pilot mixture screw, carb balance. Clean out the float bowls-including the hidden pilot jet. Plug type and gap.

Good Luck
Peg.
 

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#13 · (Edited)
One place is the T140E Factory Service Manual. But if someone else doesn't post the info I will try to get it done this PM. I'm not sure what plans the Mrs has for me.

Source see who has the parts when they get listed. Domi Racer used to be in Cincinnati but they went out of business bout 25/30 year ago.

K
 
#14 ·
The MKII carbs came with two basic set-ups for T140s:
European (non-EPA)
124/026 #15 pilot jet
124/012 #35 choke jet
2928/122 .106 needle jet
2928/030 #3 1/2 slide (leaner than US equivelent)
2622/124 2A1 needle
No air jet fitted

US EPA
124/026 #25 pilot jet
124/026 #50 choke jet
2928/031 .105 (special stainless steel)
2926/060 #3 slide
2928/030 2C3 needle
An air jet was fitted to the central air inlet on US EPA models.

All these sepcs are for bikes with stock air cleaners and mufflers. Any changes require adjustments.

Hi
This is information I have saved from a post by John Healy on another forum.

Regards
Peg.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
For Amal2 Mk 2 Tuning and Euro Jetting see also https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c+Carburetor+Installation+&+Tuning+manual.pdf

EDIT: for better link see http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/AmalMK11Tuning1.pdf

For my T140E I moved the choke lever to the handlebar. You need the following parts:
60-3246 choke lever, h/bar
2x 2622/149 cable choke kit, Mk2
2x 60-7118 rubber sleeve, carb/cable
2x 60-7084 cable, rear, throttle/chokeMk2
01-9824 junction box, 2-cable
06-6565 air cable, front

My major part source is https://nortonmotors.de/de here in Germany.

regards
Oliver
 
#18 · (Edited)
Wrench

The information Peg posted is the same I use. While it's a bit different from the Factory Service Manual I feel John Healy ones are a better choice. The change over is not cheap it's worthwhile.

I would like to thank Peg for her post as it saved me a bunch of typing.

I will try again tonight to post information from the choke linkage service bulletin.

K
 
#25 ·
Every hard-to-start problem I've ever had started with plug wires. I'd start by replacing the spark plug wires with copper-core wires. I make mine out of old Ford tractor wires I buy at Tractor Supply or Farm & Fleet. Modern "resistor" type are made for cars with radios. They don't work well on these old bikes with their tiny spark production.
 
#28 ·
Don't see any reason to alter my statement. Plug wire...then plugs. Long shot is bad coil but I've never had one. Make sure you have fat spark and that it arrives at the correct time. I don't care about ground unless I don't have spark...then I go looking to find out why. I also figure out in the process if the plugs stink of gas or bone dry. What EI or MKII's or neg ground have to do with this so far is a mystery to me...but, hey, I'm open minded.

That said, if you have spark, then carbs are easy to sort. Either they suck air from the wrong place, starve the intake for fuel, or flood. But having the answers to all that means nothing if you don't have spark.
 
#30 ·
Don't see any reason to alter my statement. Plug wire...then plugs. Long shot is bad coil but I've never had one. Make sure you have fat spark and that it arrives at the correct time. I don't care about ground unless I don't have spark...then I go looking to find out why. I also figure out in the process if the plugs stink of gas or bone dry. What EI or MKII's or neg ground have to do with this so far is a mystery to me...but, hey, I'm open minded.

That said, if you have spark, then carbs are easy to sort. Either they suck air from the wrong place, starve the intake for fuel, or flood. But having the answers to all that means nothing if you don't have spark.
Well I will grant you have more time with these bikes at 50 years you must have stated playing with them about '69. I'm a newbie only had my 70 since '78.

A '79 T140E is a different beast from your 71 TR6 even though they may look similar.

I was taught a long time ago you do not use solid core wires with an E.I.

The US T140E's with the MKII carbs have been poor starters since I was selling them new due to the EPA mandated jetting. If you go back and read the first post the OP states the lever will not stay down.

In addition all three '79's I have owned had problems with the enrichners. It has also been my experience the MKII carbureted machines do not like to start easily below about 80/85 degrees F. Where I have never had a problem starting my 78 T140V at 25 degrees F.


K
 
#29 ·
You and I have the same bike. The lever has to stay down. (Have a friend hold it). Don't give her any gas. Three swift kicks (I always do mine off the bike) and she may start. If not, pull the lever up, give her about a half throttle and it should start. Remember to depress the lever immediately, otherwise it will stall. Let her warm up and raise the lever and away you go. There's probably something loose in the lever assembly or it's missing a part.

Good luck
 
#31 ·
This is from Motortrend: "A solid wire offers virtually no resistance, as it was designed to deliver the maximum amount of spark from a low-output ignition. This type of plug wire is perfectly suited for a points-style distributor (but NOT one that’s been converted to electronic!) or with a magneto; used with an electronic ignition, a solid wire cannot protect the sensitive components like a properly insulated wire can. A carbon-conductor wire, on the other hand, does offer the shielding characteristics needed for a “basic” electronic ignition (with the terminals acting as resistors), however, its high level of suppression (designed to prevent noise/radio interference) equates to reduced spark travel. A spiral-wound or induction-type wire offers the same or more high suppression as a carbon-core, but unlike its predecessor, has the low resistance necessary for optimum spark, making it perfectly suited for performance ignition systems."

So, the issue is how much resistance does the EI system call for?

As for MkII's, the issues are always the same: air leak, not enough fuel, too much fuel. Obviously, you can have all three at different times. But in my experience, the bike started when it came out of the factory. If it didn't, well, somebody bought the wrong bike. If it did, return it to OEM spec and it will do so again.

BTW, I started my log splitter this morning in two pulls by heating up the carb with a hair dryer first. It's either that...or stand there swearing at it while I pull my arm out of the socket. Sometimes, you just have to accept that when it comes to the EPA, elections matter.
 
#34 ·
As for MkII's, the issues are always the same: air leak, not enough fuel, too much fuel. Obviously, you can have all three at different times. But in my experience, the bike started when it came out of the factory. If it didn't, well, somebody bought the wrong bike. If it did, return it to OEM spec and it will do so again.

BTW, I started my log splitter this morning in two pulls by heating up the carb with a hair dryer first. It's either that...or stand there swearing at it while I pull my arm out of the socket. Sometimes, you just have to accept that when it comes to the EPA, elections matter.


Which original spec. using the Champion N3 plug or the update spec. of the N5 plugs on the T140E. Same thing with the carbs using the Original spec US jetting or the updated US spec jetting?


By the way I have a spool of Packard 440 wire I use on my pre E.I. bikes. I usually go to the Tractor Supply store when I'm in Springville NY area nice store . (Friend of mine in NY has a real nice 41 I.H Regular Tractor ,wish I knew the model, he restored it along with a 1953 IH Farmall Cub.) Farm & Fleet has a new store round here in Romeoville and Big R just sold out. Now they are Stock and Field


Nice the that your splitter started so easy with the hair dryer. Kinda had to carry a hair dryer on the bike. Then if your not at home where do you plug it in? Like I stated previously my Concentric carbed bikes start easily at 25 degrees with out a hair dryer. I seriously doubt my T140D or T140E would start easily at 25 degrees with either the original US or updated US spec jetting.


K
 
#33 ·
https://www.triumphrat.net/showthread.php?t=954204

Hi Wrench,

Have a read through the above thread. I have a 79 E and also had starting issues. I stripped the carbs, cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner, fitted them with all new jets and internals, replaced plugs, leads, wiring etc and eventually fitted a pair of Trispark coils.

The coils were the key for me, but the rest did help. When I got the bike, she was a bitch to start, taking a LOT of kicks to wake up and whilst riding her, I was terrified of Stalling her anx not getting started again. Now, I open the fuel tap, turn the engine over a couple of times to prime everything, switch on the ignition and she starts 1st kick every time.

Definitely clean the carbs and replace the cold start plungers if their rubber ends are showing any signs of nippleing ? Ideally fit a henuine Amal new jets and gasket kit. Make sure you have no leaks between the carbs and engine (including the balance pipe). Fot new non-resistor NGK plugs too. This is all worth doing if you do not know when it was last done. If that doesn't work, try the Trispark coils,

Cheers,
Ian
 
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