kickstart jammed? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Supersport 400
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T 140V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lancaster UK
Posts: 100
kickstart jammed?

I was kickstarting my T 140V tonight when the kickstarter jammed after a couple of inches movement. I've taken off the outer cover and found that the kickstarter quadrant is not jammed in the kickstart pinion teeth as I thought it might be. ( I had tried putting her into gear and rocking back and forth without success ).
I tried rotating the back wheel with first gear engaged and the plugs out- it wouldn't turn.
I'm a bit stumped now- has anyone got any ideas how I can find out what's happened?

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Anon
ploughboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 08:29 PM
SuperBike
Senior Member
 
tridentt150v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 1,604
Garage
Try using 2nd or 3rd gear with the rear wheel.

Does your T140V [I don't know the year of your bike] have an electric start? Sounds like something has dropped into your timing gears.

Have you tried rotating in say 3rd gear backwards?

tridentt150v,
Great Southern Land.
(Where women blow and men chunder).
tridentt150v is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 10:43 PM
Site Supporter
SuperSport
Main Motorcycle: 1972 Triumph Tiger 650
Lifetime Premium
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: southeastern United States
Posts: 1,212
Other Motorcycle: Honda VT750C Aero Shadow
Year of manufacture???????????????????

Owner Very Early 1972 Triumph Tiger 650 TR6R OIF
tjkoko is online now  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 02:03 AM
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 1973 Triumph TR7RV
Senior Member
 
TR7RVMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA USA
Posts: 2,763
Other Motorcycle: 1964 Triumph Mountain Cub
Hi Ploughboy, Does rear wheel rotate freely in neutral? It should.

What happens if you pull in clutch & free clutch? Can you break free clutch with lever pulled now by turning rear wheel hard?

If yes you can turn wheel with clutch pulled the trans is not causing no turning of motor.

If you can NOT break free clutch turning rear wheel or by temporally refitting outer cover & motor will not turn over you have to try to rotate motor by other means.

Remove spark plugs & look in plug holes with a flashlight (torch) & see if you see anything or cyl full of liquid or something odd like that.

Such as removing inspection cover if you have one on primary or remove primary cover & turn motor with wrench on crank nut. Start by turning nut clockwise as not to unscrew nut. If crank won't turn with a wrench. With spark plugs out crank should rotate fairly easily with wrench.

You may see a chain problem or something else with primary off. If crank doesn't turn that's bad. Something inside motor is stuck.

If crank turns & you see slack in chain change direction then we're looking at some odd thing going on in clutch or something.

The point here is to locate the problem area with the least amount of disassembly.
Don
TR7RVMan is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 02:34 PM
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: T140 cafe NRE900cc
Senior Member
 
Rancidpegwoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Posts: 933
Other Motorcycle: Yes
Extra Motorcycle: Of course
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkoko View Post
Year of manufacture???????????????????
T140V = 73 to 78

Quick fixes are named after how long they stay fixed, not how long it takes to make them.
Rancidpegwoman is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
Supersport 400
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T 140V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lancaster UK
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tridentt150v View Post
Try using 2nd or 3rd gear with the rear wheel.

Does your T140V [I don't know the year of your bike] have an electric start? Sounds like something has dropped into your timing gears.

Have you tried rotating in say 3rd gear backwards?
Hi tridentt150v- I've got some rotation at the back wheel ( forwards and backwards) now when she's in fifth gear- maybe a quarter of a rotation, then it stops. It's a '78, kickstart. The back wheel rotates freely in neutral.

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Anon
ploughboy is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
Supersport 400
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T 140V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lancaster UK
Posts: 100
Thanks for those thoughts TR7RVMAN.
I'll work through your suggestions, but now, having replaced the outer cover I seem to have nothing happening when I pull the clutch lever. There's no resistance at all. Have I missed something obvious replacing the cover?

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Anon
ploughboy is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 10:24 PM
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 1973 Triumph TR7RV
Senior Member
 
TR7RVMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA USA
Posts: 2,763
Other Motorcycle: 1964 Triumph Mountain Cub
Hi Ploughboy, I just put my '73 Tiger in 5th gear & rotated wheel. Much less than yours. I have larger rear sprocket 46t. Looking at spoke nipples, I get just over 2 nipples free rotation of rear wheel.

When you say nothing happens when you pull clutch lever, what do you mean? No resistance at all?

Is cable hooked up inside outer cover? Visible through trans filler hole. What do you see when you look through inspection cover on primary for rod adjustment. You should see pressure plate lift about .115"(at little more than 3/32").

I should have mentioned last time to check main shaft nut for tightness. A very loose nut will lock trans if main shaft moves towards left side. When trans is locked from a very loose nut it will not allow rotating rear wheel. Since you say wheel rotates the shafts are not locked by poor alignment at the moment. If you feel for it & have a skinny enough finger you can put finger through filler hole & feel a loose nut if you know what to feel for. The few loose nuts I've seen could be moved with finger easily. You can also grab adjuster nut for clutch rod very tightly with needle nose pliers & push/pull on it & see/feel the pressure plate move. If it's loose it often moves easily with the pliers. Back off rod adjustment first a few turns & lock nut before doing this test.

I'd look into why clutch lever moves oddly now.

Remember even if motor is seized solid, The clutch should free normally like it always does with clutch lever pulled.

If clutch frees as it should & motor still won't turn over when you kick it or rotate rear wheel, it's time to remove primary cover & put a wrench on alternator rotor nut & see if motor turns then.

Sounding like the motor seized or primary chain is broken & stuck or the like. Or tensioner broken & jammed up somehow.
Don
TR7RVMan is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
Supersport 400
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T 140V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lancaster UK
Posts: 100
Hi Don
I've taken off the outer cover and the primary cover now. The primary ckain and tensioner look fine and the chain rotates with the back wheel ( in fifth) as far as the wheel moves till it sticks again. I have noticed that when the left hand piston comes to the top of it's travel the inlet valve head can be seen down the spark plug (too much I think)hole and the piston seems to hit it. I have put a small piece of wire under the valve head and the piston will trap it so you can't pull it out. I've taken the tappet inspection cover off and that valve seems seated OK, so not sure what's happening?
Attached Images
 

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Anon
ploughboy is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 02:29 PM
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 1973 Triumph TR7RV
Senior Member
 
TR7RVMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA USA
Posts: 2,763
Other Motorcycle: 1964 Triumph Mountain Cub
Hi Ploughboy, Hmmm.... That is interesting. I don't have the knowledge off the top of my head to say if the valve is open to far or not from the photo. I'd have to compare to my bike. I know you can see the valves pretty well when open as I've looked at them many times.

A few thoughts. When motor is stuck, put a rod, screw driver or dowel down cyl. Mark it & compare with other side to see if piston is coming up too far. Coming up too far is another subject we'll only get into if that is found.

If you've not changed valve adjustment yet, valve clearance can give some clues.

I gather from what you say the valve is still moving & not stuck fully or more open?

If.... you can get the right intake fully open what is valve clearance on left? It should be at least close to normal clearance. If clearance is very loose that can indicate a bent valve. Like .020-.030+". If clearance is zero valve may be held open some or a lot. You say it looks normal closed, but is it?

If push rod jumps out of the tappet or rocker balls & sets on edge of ball(s) it will over lift the valve & might interfere with piston. But if it's still stuck on top of ball ends the rocker/valve should look pushed down. You can look with a torch inside the rocker box & visually see top of push rods & see if they are socketed into rockers as they should be. I don't know why push rod would come out, all of a sudden during starting other than the valve stuck in it's guide, then came free & push rod is unseated somewhere.

When you back piston down slightly, can you see witness mark on piston where valve contacted it.

You could try backing off rocker adjusting screw & see if motor moves farther compared to the marks you made on test rod earlier.

BUT!!! Keep upward tension on rocker arm to keep the push rod notched in. If you let rocker get too much clearance with screw removed or backed out too far, it might let push rod jump out.

I've been crazy busy with elder care lately so I'm even more fuzzy minded that usual & my time is consumed by that. It might be a few days before I can pull my plugs & check look at my valve/piston clearance.

At this point you are into serious diagnosis. So go slow & easy. We want to find root problem & correct it or it can happen again.
Don
TR7RVMan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
All posts must adhere to Forum Rules

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome