I almost have decent oil filtration - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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I almost have decent oil filtration

With an oil change looming I finally got around to fitting the oil filter kit from Tricor Andy.

https://www.tricor-andy.com/product/...re-oil-models/

Iíve had a couple of aborted attempts at this before and couldnít figure out why it was impossible to clamp the bracket to the frame and filter housing at the same time. It turns out I was missing two frame spacers, they look like big-end shells in the picture and apparently they're only supplied for the 500 frame. Even with those it was tricky to hold everything together while I tightened the screws so I taped the spacers to the frame, loosely did everything up and then tweaked final adjustments.

The best position I could find was with the filter housing mounted high in the clamp. The ribbed top section is larger diameter than the rest so it had to go either above or below the frame otherwise it would foul. Below the frame left too little room for the lower pipe joint and made it very difficult to undo the housing cap. Iím going to do some miles before I plumb it in to make sure nothing loosens and then Iíll figure the best pipe routing and connect it up.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 10:32 AM
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does that take a Trident filter?

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 11:34 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty1 View Post
Iím going to do some miles before I plumb it in to make sure nothing loosens and then Iíll figure the best pipe routing and connect it up.
Fwiw, on my T100:-

. I've fitted the filter housing so the outlet (top) points towards the timing side of the bike;

. the attached outlet spigot is a full 90-degree bend, so the attached hose ends up closer to and parallel to the filter housing;

. both hoses are then routed between the rear engine plates;

. if you want, but Andy can't supply, a better top bend, you know they're standard petrol tap spigots, the 90-degree bend being a standard one that any half-decent Britbike spares dealer should have?

Btw, talking of Trident filter elements, it was always advised to soak a new element in oil and add as much clean as possible into the filter compartment. I've an old enamel jug that I use to soak the element in oil; on the T100, I pour clean oil into the empty filter housing 'til it reaches the outlet, transfer the new oil-soaked filter element from the jug to the housing, inserting the element into the housing slowly so any displaced oil has time to run out of the outlet.

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does that take a Trident filter?


Hth.

Regards,

Stuart
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 11:37 AM
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Yep, good idea to prefill the housing on a Trident also. Bike on the sidestand.

Htown16, Houston, Texas
1978 T140E Bonneville, 1974 Trident, 1972 Commando, 1971 Commando
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Iíve got all the bits I need to plumb the filter in this weekend and Iíd appreciate some guidance on one particular issue.

Iíll be replacing the feed pipe as well as the return, theyíre both showing signs of perishing and I have enough pipe in the kit. In replacing these Iíll soak the filter in oil and fill the housing/new pipes as much as I can but Iím bound to introduce some air into the feed and return systems. Once complete I was planning to remove the plugs and push the bike along in gear until oil returned to the tank, this should also purge the feed line. Theyíll be residual oil in the engine so this shouldnít do it any harm but is it necessary or should I just start the bike and let the oil circulation take care of itself?
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 07:14 AM
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Hi Rusty,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty1 View Post
I’ve got all the bits I need to plumb the filter in this weekend
Just as a matter of interest, the new hose is reinforced; you can't squeeze it flat between thumb 'n' forefinger?

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Originally Posted by Rusty1 View Post
replacing the feed pipe as well as the return,
should I just start the bike and let the oil circulation take care of itself?
Absolutely; having started the engine, just check in the tank for returning oil.

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Originally Posted by Rusty1 View Post
bound to introduce some air into the feed and return systems.
remove the plugs and push the bike along in gear until oil returned to the tank,
Bad practice. Cam bearings and tappets especially within the crankcase are splash-lubricated, which won't happen just pushing the bike around in gear. As your bike's in use, obviously splash-lubricated bearings will have an oil film on them; however, pushing a bike in gear, or kicking the engine innumerable times, on the off-chance oil might return to the tank is still bad practice.

Your bike has a tank well above the pump; if you're worried about air bubbles, refill the oil tank as normal and leave the bike front downhill for a while for any bubbles in the inlet pipe to work themselves back to the tank?

As for oil in the return, surely you've looked into the oil tank with the engine running? If you have, you know the oil reappears in intermittent spurts; this is because the scavenge side of the pump has a greater capacity than the feed side, so the scavenge pumps out all the oil fed and, when there isn't any oil in the crankcase, the pump sucks air; filter in the return from engine to tank won't change this.

Hth.

Regards,

Stuart

Last edited by StuartMac; 08-21-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartMac View Post
As for oil in the return, surely you've looked into the oil tank with the engine running? If you have, you know the oil reappears in intermittent spurts; this is because the scavenge side of the pump has a greater capacity than the feed side, so the scavenge pumps out all the oil fed and, when there isn't any oil in the crankcase, the pump sucks air; filter in the return from engine to tank won't change this.
Thanks Stuart

Of course yes, I didn't make the connection between air being scavenged during normal use and a little more that I may introduce. I'm looking forward to seeing the effect of this filter, I change the oil at about 800 mile intervals and it is jet black when it comes out. Can I expect that to change?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartMac View Post
Just as a matter of interest, the new hose is reinforced; you can't squeeze it flat between thumb 'n' forefinger?
I haven't checked that, I just assumed that the hose which Andy provided in the kit is up to the job.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 02:42 PM
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Hi Rusty,

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I'm looking forward to seeing the effect of this filter, I change the oil at about 800 mile intervals and it is jet black when it comes out. Can I expect that to change?
Mmmm ... 800 miles seems quite quick for oil to go very black? However, depends what's causing it for the filter to make a visible difference - aiui, it's particles in the 15-30 micron range that do the most wear, so filter makers aim to remove this (and anything bigger, obviously). Otoh, if what's causing the oil to go black is even tinier particles of, say, carbon, they likely aren't doing any damage but the filter won't make a difference.

Aside, another aspect is 'cake filtration', where the filtration actually improves after the element's accumulated some particles, as the trapped particles reduce the size of the holes in the filter element, so more and smaller particles are trapped ... I suspect the trick is to know when the trapped particles are starting to reduce the flow through the filter ...

Aside2, once you've run with the filter in the oil, if you still aren't happy with how quickly it darkens, have you considered sending off a sample to one of the engineering labs. for analysis? Not sure what the fee'd be but, depending, you might consider any returned information more valuable?

Certainly when Triumph was making tens of thousands of motorcycles a year and wanted as few warranty problems as possible, it's perhaps instructive that, when the triples were introduced, with the micropore filter as standard, their recommended oil change interval was 4,000 miles; same oils certainly as the twins, recommended oil change interval 1,500 miles ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartMac View Post
new hose is reinforced; you can't squeeze it flat between thumb 'n' forefinger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty1 View Post
I just assumed that the hose which Andy provided in the kit is up to the job.
It most-likely is. Just, having been caught out in the past by a DPO fitting unreinforced hose (to the T160 I bought second-hand), I thought I'd ask the question ... on the basis that the stupidest question is the one not asked ...

Hth.

Regards,

Stuart
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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It most-likely is. Just, having been caught out in the past by a DPO fitting unreinforced hose (to the T160 I bought second-hand), I thought I'd ask the question ... on the basis that the stupidest question is the one not asked ...
Valid point Stuart, the hose I think is ok, it is reinforced. I too thought that 800 miles was quite soon for the oil to be black, it does use more than I'd want, not visibly but I can smell it on start up so it must be burning it and the tank does need an occasional top up. The only history I have is anecdotal, a top end rebuild 9000 miles ago with a re-bore to +20 and valves & guides replaced. The bike is running well so I'm not unduly worried, in fact in a perverse way I'm quite looking forward to a top end strip to see what I've got in there but I'm enjoying riding too much to do that. Also the re-wire is the next job in 500 miles time when I've used up my 3000 mile insurance allowance.
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