We're slowly but surely making progress on getting my wife's 1979 Bonny T140E back together. She's doing 99% of the work, I'm just helping with research.
The current project is installing the Motao sump plate filter. It's assembled and bolted up easily after I slightly enlarged the holes on the drill press. And on the advice of @TR7RVMan we used a gasket from BritishOnly, not Motao.
There are a couple of things I could use some help figuring out next though.
First is the oil tube fitting. If you tighten this fitting, the fat o-ring squirms out, which is obviously not right. You can only go finger-tight plus a tiny bit before the o-ring starts to deform. Is that expected? Should I use blue loc-tite to keep this fitting from working loose? If you tighten it to keep the o-ring looking good it just doesn't feel tight enough to be secure. I could be overthinking it though.
The other issue is how to route the oil hose. We have the oil fitting pointing to the back to the back of the bike since that's said to be required for the center stand to fit the new sump plate. But I could really use some pictures to see how the oil hose should be routed and secured.
Or go a copper washer and anneal and fit it. Interesting that the original Triumph fitting was a press fit...don't know why they didn't go with that. FWIW I have a Charlie's filter kit fitted, had it for over 20 years and 50,000km with nil issues.
+1!
Get a new copper washer, heat it until cherry red and drop it into cold water (not part of the process but means you don't have to wait for it to cool). I always do this with engine sump plugs, gearbox drains, differentials etc. Any working of copper hardens it, anealing it de-stresses the metal, softening it again.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions that this o-ring was hot garbage! I don't know beans about bikes, but some of my other hobbies involve o-rings and so this looked like bad news.
Hi Horseflesh, Discard the o-ring. Do not use it! The kits I've been involved with also came with 2 copper ring. Both 1/2". If not go to auto parts store & get a supply of rings. Drain ring is the same. Use copper for both.
Use blue loctitie 242 or 243 on both the oil line fitting & the filter threaded rod into base plate is a good plan. After the oil line fitting is installed look at hex & make sure the corner of hex is below gasket surface. File it down as needed so hex doesn't foul frame bottom.
Before you commit to rear facing line try the plate facing forward & check for center stand clearance.
I have never placed fitting to rear. I don't know the routing, you'll have to figure that out. Some stands don't hit forward, some do. I modify the housing & place fitting forwards.
After installing drain plug, verify magnet doesn't hit the bottom filter adaptor disc. I've had to grind magnet shorter on some. The lower adaptor disc 0-ring has a tendency to pop out as it's not contained. Most discard this ring as it's not really needed.
PM me if you get stuck. I have lots of photos, but none of rear facing oil line.
Don
Got it, @TR7RVMan. Somewhere in my reading I got the idea that the Motao always fit better pointing backwards, we will just try it the easy way before we commit. Thanks for the other tips, that all makes sense. Much appreciated!
hey horseflesh
i've fitted one to my 76 T140
like you, i had to file out the holes to line up with the studs on the frame
i can't remember, but it looks like i've used the o ring
i've got mine facing forward, this is the first i've heard of the other way
as you'll see in the pics my centrestand hits on the drain plug rather than sitting in the slot
without trying it, i think putting it on the other way, the stand cross bar still wouldnt sit in the slot
as you see mine is leaking oil, i'll have to try the other gasket
hope this helps
rory
Thanks much for the pics @rbe & @tribsa1954. We'll just have to see what happens on ours... Folks have said there are different versions of this kit. Looks like the center stand cross-brace may not be consistent across these bikes too.
Rory do you have any problems with the center stand being a little out of place like that?
Hi RBE & tribsa1954, RBE has the current production (late) plate as I do. I can't tell from photo what plate tribsa has.
Could both of you guys very closely look at drain bolt & see if the bolt head is actually being the center stand stop?
I don't know why some clear & some don't. Position of cross brace is obviously the key factor.
The few I've seen locally, the guys said cleared fine, but indeed stand hit bolt head. It also keeps stand from fully retracting. I at first zip tied some rubber hose around stand. That brought stand down a little lower, but I never corner fast enough to drag anything so it didn't matter. Normally the stand stop is a little metal plate welded to crossmember on right side. Stand has a nub cast onto it, at least mine does.
I experimented with running oil hose to rear. Was no good route in my mine. I was committed to the factory front facing hose, as it's a safe smooth path, with minimal chance of kinking. It also allows plate to easily drop down for servicing so hose doesn't need to be removed.
After I put in smaller drain plug, I found stand hit fins. Had to grind them down for clearance. I was committed to have it exactly what I wanted.
T140 changed tire sizes, I don't know what changes the stands made if any to accommodate that. All the stands look the same until you really examine them. Learned this working on a '76. My bike goes easy on center stand. The '76 was a killer. Never really could determine for sure if stand was correct or not. Did not have filter on this bike so I don't know how clearance will be.
Don
hi Don
you got me thinking, so i went out to the garage
while its close, the cross bar on my T140 rests on the drain plug, but if i put a smaller or lower profile plug in, it would hit on the fins - not go into the slot
in one of the photos, you can see (just) the tab on the RH frame tube that the stand presumable would rest against, but theres about 3/16 clearance now
i forgot why i always use the centrestand, but when you see where the sidestand sits if you fold it up after the centrestand, it would ground out pretty early
when you fold the sidestand up before the centrestand, the centrestand pushes it up further and i haven't had any clearance issues, but i haven't leant it over that much ... yet
i checked my '80 T140 frame with the standard sump and the cross brace rests against a recess on either side
i was about to measure both centrestands' cross braces when i got distracted, so that'll be a job for tomorrow - beer time now
hope this helps
rory
Hi Don & Rory, as you can see from my plate the main stand doesn't foul the drain bolt and fits up in the recess area between the fins, my side stand also doesn't interfere with the main stand either. I know there are different part numbers for the main stand for 79/80 models, as mine is on the border of these years regarding parts, I found this out when replacing the return spring.
Hi Guys, The early Motao is thinner on sides where the cut out for center stand is. Meaning the sealing flange surface.
Notice the 2nd photo on RBE's bike. Looks like the stand cross bar is resting on drain bolt head. See the retaining nut, a fin just to right of nut. Notice how the gasket flange is parallel all the way across? That is the later one. The early one the gasket flange thins out at the stand cutout.
I think RBEs drain bolt is becoming the stop. That is exactly how mine was.
On the other hand, Tribsa1954's crossbar looks to be fully inside the cutout.
Hi Don, mine does fit inside the cutout...just, the cross brace on the stand is very close to the drain bolt, perhaps I am just lucky that the cross brace is in a slightly different position, or my Motao plate is an earlier one, I think mine is about five years old now.
OK, we tried putting the Motao plate facing forward, and the center stand clears the drain bolt, though barely... but the crossbar does touch the plate fins. This means that the center stand is unable to return to the home position with the OEM plate, but the difference appears to be about 1/4".
To me, the position of the center stand looks reasonable, but keep in mind I don't ride. My wife the rider agrees that it seems OK. What do y'all think?
Here you can see how the crossbrace rests on the fins. I could grind out notches in the fins, but I could only add about 1/8" clearance before I was past the fins and into the meat of the plate. This plate is just taller than the OEM one.
Oh here's one other thing that doesn't look right. The Motao kit came with a copper washer for the drain plug, but it was also assembled with an o-ring. The o-ring is unneeded if you have a copper washer, right? There's no way I can tighten this enough to make the copper washer work unless that o-ring gets trashed.
Good question. The instructions completely skip over discussing or showing the drain plug, but the parts came assembled hand-tight as shown.
The instructions do show an o-ring on the exit pipe fitting, not a copper washer... though the text doesn't explicitly discuss how to assemble that, either.
A copper washer in each place seems reasonable to me but there is a lot I don't know.
Hi horseflesh, So, indeed it seems many variations of center stands. So every bike has to have filter fitted custom to the bike.
How does stand clear if hose goes out facing rear?
I thought the o-ring had been discussed prior? To be clear, DISCARD BOTH O-RINGS. Only use the copper ones.
I still personally feel the oil pipe is best pointing to front like factory did. I was willing to do whatever it takes to do that, which included grinding fins & getting a smaller drain plug.
Of course you will spend several hours doing this. However once done, it's done & from now on life is easy. Well regarding the oil filter anyway.
Don
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