Need to replace 79 Bonneville T140E stock gauze oil filter -- best option? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
Minitwins
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Need to replace 79 Bonneville T140E stock gauze oil filter -- best option?

We got the sump plate off my wife's Bonny T140E, and found a big gash in the oil filter.



It looks like there are a couple of options now and I would really appreciate some feedback.

One, we can keep the original sump plate and just replace the filter with one similar to the stock filter. This one, for example, is a little taller and is designed to keep sludge out.

https://thebonnevilleshop.com/triump...-4783-84-0027/

Two, we can replace the sump plate and filter entirely with one of the mods that uses a modern disposable filter. For example:

https://thebonnevilleshop.com/triump...pn-tbs-0004-1/
http://www.motaoshop.com/index.php?r...product_id=175

Using a modern filter seems like a good idea, but I just don't know the products and what the downsides of the mods might be. I did find another thread here that said the Motao version was hard to install.

Whatever we choose, it has to be pretty easy to install because we are novice mechanics, and the filter itself needs to be easy to find in the future.

Many many thanks if you can set me on the right path!
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 04:55 PM
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There a a lot of Triumphs out there running just fine with the OEM style mesh filter. So, that OEM style replacement is a good choice.

That said, the Bonneville Shop conversion looks like an easy install BUT I'd be leery of any conversion that doesn't use a readily available replacement filter element. If they will cross reference the filter element they use to a generic, readily available filter I'd consider that.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:20 PM
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That looks like one made by TricorEngland, aka Andy Gregory
It uses a bsa B25 filter

I always buy the filters 2/3 at a time as p&p adds up

http://www.tri-corengland.com/cgi-bi...%2ehtml#SID=15
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:45 PM
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Hi Horseflesh,
Originally the oils used in Triumphs were low detergent monogrades, these lubricants were kept clean by dropping the combustion contaminates to the bottom of the oil tank and collecting them in a centrifugal filter inside the crankshaft, a layer of ‘sludge’ collected at the lowest point in the tank.
As oils developed Triumph changed it’s recommended lubricant to high(er) detergent multigrades, these are designed to hold combustion contaminates in suspension in the oil, so the formation of ‘sludge’ is greatly reduced. The oil companies expected the removal of these contaminates to be done by a micro pore oil filter.
It is generally considered an oversight by Triumph to recommend high detergent oil, but not install a filter to collect the contaminates, as these then just keep getting recirculated around the engine causing premature wear.

A lucrative business has been made by companies making aftermarket conversions to micro pore filters, so that owners can retrofit what is often considered by many (including me fwiw) an essential upgrade.

It seems to me that you have been presented with the ideal opportunity to update your filtration system.

Regards
Peg

The function of man is to live, not to exist. (Jack London)
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:47 PM
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The last time I read a thread on T140 oil filters the Motao ( I think ) was said to be better quality. Don’t buy one that has the filter stud completely through the sump plate, it will leak like mine does. They all seem to use the B25 element which seems to be readily available. What you have now is a screen, not a filter.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:50 PM
wol
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Years ago i bought an original "Charlies" filter ( modded sump plate with a B25 filter ) -- since then i have fitted probably over 10 "copies" to various T140s i have owned - every one had the stud passing through the sump plate - never had one leak - bit of sealant on the thread plus copper washer on the outside plus nyloc nut - job done - not rocket science

not fitted a Motoa one myself but what i have read suggests the four fixing holes are either slightly too small or slightly mis aligned - easily sorted with a file or openning out with a corect size drill -- apart from that i believe it is regarded as a well made item
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 11:44 PM
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Hi horseflesh, The filter from the Bonneville shop is a Motao. I have a lot of experience with the Motao filter. You can get from Bonnie shop or direct from Motao on eBay. I always get my replacement filters direct from Motao via eBay. $10.00 ea, free shipping. Direct from Taiwan, takes about 1.5 weeks or less to California. After looking at different brand elements, I feel the Motao is the better quality & lowest price. There is no direct automotive replacement filter I'm aware of.

I first fitted the "improved" strainer with the metal band at bottom. This is a sludge band to reduce settled sludge from getting sucked through screen as sludge is thin enough to pass through. However after installing the Motao it pretty much stops 100% of sludge. A paper element filter of any type will keep the oil cleaner looking about twice as long as with the improved screen.

I can't say if a paper filter will make motor last longer, but every car I can think of uses a paper element filter. After overhauling a motor, it's surprising how many tiny metal bits is trapped by the paper. The paper filters really do work.

Regarding install, Motao has made some changes over time. If you look closely at photos on Motao web site you'll see they put oil feed tube to rear. Then you get a much longer feed hose from filter to motor feed pipe. That makes the install easier & clears center stand. The drain plug seal is 1/2" copper washer. They are sold at ACE hardware or many auto parts stores. The gasket is the same Triumph part, but you only use one, not 2 as with your screen. I use a nylock nut on top of filter instead of plain nut. Ace hardware sells them. 1/4-28 fine thread.

Supposedly the 4 holes are now larger... No matter you can just run a drill through them, making them same size as the original plate holes. Do not use any rubber O-rings for drain plug or feed pipe. Just use copper with some sealant on ring for feed pipe. Depending on you frame bottom shape & where the hex ends up for the feed pipe, the hex may hit frame so filter won't set flat. Just file it as needed.

If you want to run the oil feed pipe forwards like factory did, that's what's more work. Often, but not always the center stand will hit the drain plug head & also the "fins" on filter plate. I put a thin allen head drain plug in, & cut fins short for stand clearance on my 73 Tiger. I wanted the hose forward.

For oil hose I like Gates 3/8 auto trans cooler hose. Gates Fuel injection hose works good also. They both resist kinking & have a high heat rating. Sold in bulk by the foot at many auto parts stores. O'riley's has it near me, but you have to ask for it.

The Charlie's type filter is similar. Takes same element as Motao. The difference is the makers basically modify a regular sump plate to accept the filter. I've no experience with those. I'm told some hit center stand, some don't. Depends on shape of the retainer nut for filter stud.

You can put a spin on Norton filter also. Basically attaches to back of back bone with a 3" muffler clamp, or you can purchase a nice bracket. I'm familiar with these also. They work well. They go into return hose between motor return pipe & the oil return/rocker feed pipe. The elements are sold at Napa parts stores or Triumph parts sellers. Often special order only from Napa. They are an uncommon size.

If you decide on spin on filter in return hose, you'll need a new screen for frame. Get the improved version. You still need to clean screen at oil changes though. That's one reason I went with in frame. The other is it looks factory for when I show bike.

I've had the Motao kit for several thousand miles now & I've been very happy with it. My friends have spin on & very happy with those.

With the frame sump filter, you are sucking cleaned oil into motor. With a return filter you don't send dirty oil into frame. A few use both. From my observations it doesn't really seem to matter, both clean well.

Since you need a screen I feel frame sump filter is a good choice at this time. Either brand. If you decide on Charlie's, check with WOL as to the ones he gets.

Regarding oil, many of my riding friends & I use Mobil1 V-twin 20/50. Has very high zinc level & very good heat resistance. Works very well in our clutches. Walmart is best price. Many auto parts stores stock it so if on the road, you can get it.

If you need more details on Motao, send me a PM with your email & I'll send photos.

Don
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:39 AM
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I have to admit that i dont buy the sump plate filter kit any more --long time ago i struggled to find one after Charlies closed -so now i "make" my own - modify a std sumplate and turn up the internal top and bottom plates - helps to have a brother with access to a machine shop (and who also has a Bonnie)
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:02 AM
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Hi horseflesh, Here's a link to an external filter that might be of interest. It's similar to ones the factory installed on 3 cyl Tridents, Rocket 3s.
You'd still need a screen of course. Here's a link.

http://www.mapcycle.com/categories/e...kit-black.html

Chariles type is still to be had on Ebay. It is said if you replace acorn nut with a regular nut using sealant, it will clear center stand.
Here's an eBay link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-T14...efe805a41b64cf

Here's the Motao filter. Their web site is called Motao Shop. See the photos. Here's a link.

http://www.motaoshop.com/index.php?r...product_id=175

To be clear the Motao & Charlies filters take the exact same filter element.

Don
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
Minitwins
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Thanks a bunch everyone, this thread is gold. Stuff like washer dimensions and hose specs are exactly the kinds of details I needed to make this go smoothly. (Well... my wife wants to do the work, it's her bike after all... I am just the research assistant!)

I feel pretty good about the Motao filter now and think I will go that route instead of an external filter. If I hit a snag in the install I will send you a PM Don, but everything you said makes sense so far.
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