1960 pre unit inner chaincases-difference - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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1960 pre unit inner chaincases-difference

I’ve got a 1960 T110, the correct inner chaincase is 57-1603. It’s pretty hard to get hold of but the Trophy/Bonneville T1600 is available, anyone know what the difference is and the interchangeability
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:19 AM
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Hi Andy,

Moved this thread to the main CVV forum (it was in Tips & Tricks), more people are likely to read it here.

Regards,

Stuart
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 12:44 PM
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For the late pre-units I believe the only differences in the primary chaincase was between alternator or dynamo types.

I think all alternator inner cases were the same from about 1955, with swinging arm frame short cases used on 5T and 6T.
Alternators were only used on the last year or so of the sporty models (T120 TR6) they kept the dynamo longer than the others. I think your T110 would probably be alternator. Is that so?
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:07 PM
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Talking specifically about 1960-1962 model year 650 Pre Units all were alternator machines. Last Dynamo was used in the 1959 model year. I do not know off hand what the difference is between the T1600/T1603 inner case is but there is a difference as there are two part numbers. Even so they may interchange. I have a pair at home if I get a chance I'll take a look. I believe the T1600/1603 part numbers were first used in 1960.


If no one else here can give an answer you might want to PM Irish Swede over at Brit Bike Forum. He is BIG in Pre Unit machines.




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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Yes it is a magneto and alternator bike. The Thunderbird & T110 had T1600 inner cases and the Trophy & Bonny had the T1603
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 02:28 PM
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Andy Cub

I am going to question the Triumph parts book #16 (1960-1962) 650 bikes


In 1958/59 the 5T & 6T used the same inner cover (57-1231) while the TR5, TR6 T100, T110 and T120 used 57-1186 inner cover. The 6T model used the same outer cover from 1958-1962 (57-1237). In 1960 the T110,TR6, and T120 received a new Outer cover (57-1601)due to the alternator fitment.


If you review Parts Book 16 page 43 you will note that the T110, TR6, and T120 all take the same parts. The 6T takes the same parts as the other bikes EXCEPT for 3 studs, 4 screws and the stator. I see no reason the T110 would share the inner cover with a 6T. It only makes sense to me it would share the same one with a T120/TR6. It is my belief the parts book is in error stating the T110 used 57-1603.


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KADUTZ View Post
Andy Cub

I am going to question the Triumph parts book #16 (1960-1962) 650 bikes


In 1958/59 the 5T & 6T used the same inner cover (57-1231) while the TR5, TR6 T100, T110 and T120 used 57-1186 inner cover. The 6T model used the same outer cover from 1958-1962 (57-1237). In 1960 the T110,TR6, and T120 received a new Outer cover (57-1601)due to the alternator fitment.


If you review Parts Book 16 page 43 you will note that the T110, TR6, and T120 all take the same parts. The 6T takes the same parts as the other bikes EXCEPT for 3 studs, 4 screws and the stator. I see no reason the T110 would share the inner cover with a 6T. It only makes sense to me it would share the same one with a T120/TR6. It is my belief the parts book is in error stating the T110 used 57-1603.


K
The 1960-62 chaincase inner were different, while accepting the earlier short alternator outer cover the 60-62 inner case had two unique recesses, one for the gear box pivot bolt head, just forward of the rear frame bolt, and one recess for the engine mount centre bottom bolt (nut). The case inner from earlier models will still fit 60-62 Duplex, and many do fit them, but this will hold the case off the correct line, make it impossible to bed to the crankcase, 'pop' the fixing screws, alter the footpeg distance spacing and make the stator / rotor parallelism misaligned, which is not good. The earlier incorrect cases can be relieved to give clearance, but the material required to be removed inevitably perforates the case which then requires building up. That is the only option if correct (and now rare) case is not available.

Incidentally, the Bonni case for 60-62 was entirely identical with the recesses mentioned, apart from being 3/16" deeper, the Bonni case was the choice of modifiers who wanted Duplex chain drive, as the additional clearance meant no spacer was required.

Last edited by Freakmaster; 06-11-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KADUTZ View Post
Andy Cub

I am going to question the Triumph parts book #16 (1960-1962) 650 bikes


In 1958/59 the 5T & 6T used the same inner cover (57-1231) while the TR5, TR6 T100, T110 and T120 used 57-1186 inner cover. The 6T model used the same outer cover from 1958-1962 (57-1237). In 1960 the T110,TR6, and T120 received a new Outer cover (57-1601)due to the alternator fitment.


If you review Parts Book 16 page 43 you will note that the T110, TR6, and T120 all take the same parts. The 6T takes the same parts as the other bikes EXCEPT for 3 studs, 4 screws and the stator. I see no reason the T110 would share the inner cover with a 6T. It only makes sense to me it would share the same one with a T120/TR6. It is my belief the parts book is in error stating the T110 used 57-1603.


K
The 1960-62 chaincase inner were different, while accepting the earlier short alternator outer cover the 60-62 inner case had two unique recesses, one for the gear box pivot bolt head, just forward of the rear frame bolt, and one recess for the engine mount centre bottom bolt (nut). The case inner from earlier models will still fit 60-62 Duplex, and many do fit them, but this will hold the case off the correct line, make it impossible to bed to the crankcase, 'pop' the fixing screws, alter the footpeg distance spacing and make the stator / rotor parallelism misaligned, which is not good. The earlier incorrect cases can be relieved to give clearance, but the material required to be removed inevitably perforates the case which then requires building up. That is the only option if correct (and now rare) case is not available.

Incidentally, the Bonni case for 60-62 was entirely identical with the recesses mentioned, apart from being 3/16" deeper, the Bonni case was the choice of modifiers who wanted Duplex chain drive, as the additional clearance meant no spacer was required.
Interesting response

The 60-62 inner chaincase are different from what?

Mine was in no way intended to say use pre-60 parts. It was just a parts history. It was also to show reasons why I felt the Parts Book #16 may be incorrect.

So my (as is AndyCub) question is what is specifically the difference between 57-1600 & 57-1603. Are they interchangeable? In addition do you think Parts Book #16 is correct or incorrect in stating that the 6T and T110 use the same inner chaincase. Or do you think the T110/T120 share the same inner chaincase?

AndyCub you can disregard my previous BritBike comment as I understand you posted there previously.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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I have got parts book 16 and it looks like the Thunderbird had a different stator and a shallower alternator bulge in the outer casing so I can understand why it uses a different outer cover but don’t know if it’s a mistake both the 6T & T110 sharing the inner casing or what the difference between the duplex inner casings is
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:39 PM
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Hi Kadutz, starting from the inception of the alternator cover fitted to the single down-tube frame, The listed pre 60' T1231 inner cover appears to have the wrong part No. ?; T1231 being ascribed to the 6T rather than the T100 T110 TR6 & T120 alternator models, while T1186 is shown as 6T, so these appear to be listed back to front? (1958, Eng No. 020076, Pg 77; Cat 15). Outer covers appeared with different numbers simply by virtue of varying models insignia cast in. These are the early inner covers I refer to earlier that can only fit correctly with modification. I know you are thorougher with your numbers, maybe you can confirm these number anomalies?

I can't see that parts book 16 is incorrect here. T1603 & T1600 inner case, in the (60-62 Cat 16, Pg 40). were specifically for the duplex frame, and it's additional projecting fittings (outlined earlier), with the recesses (outlined previously). other than this, both 'appear' identical and are interchangeable, excepting that the T1600 for the T120 & TR6 were marginally deeper, (to accommodate a thicker stator?). Again, the outer case numbers only reflected the insignia cast in (Thunderbird). hope this helps.

Apologies, I see where the confusion arose, The 1960-62 chaincase inner were different, while accepting (meaning it will fit) the earlier short alternator outer cover, The 60-62 inner case had two unique recesses, one for the gear box pivot bolt head, just forward of the rear frame bolt, and one recess for the engine mount centre bottom bolt (nut).

Last edited by Freakmaster; 06-12-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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