MAP verses Morgo 750 kit - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
Grand Prix 250
Main Motorcycle: GT Sprint
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 78
MAP verses Morgo 750 kit

This is my first post in the classic portion of this club. Since I have purchased and used both a 750 Morgo and a 750 MAP kit, I decided to post some feedback.

My son and I are restoring my 1968 Bonneville. He wants it to look original, but have a lot of giddy-up to the motor. I had previously built a couple of nice 750 short rod motors for my son. Since one of the 750's was being cannibalized, I told my son to give me that motor and let me transfer as many parts to the 650 that I can.

I won't go into the details, but the biggest portion was the upgraded oil pump and matching cover, the 5-speed, primary assy, and the 750 cams. And, a ton more smaller parts.

By January this year, we were ready for the pistons. The 650 barrels I had were already .060" overbore. After checking on new barrels, pistons, etc, we opted for a 750 kit. But, which one???

We decided on the Morgo 750. Cost and delivery time were better. I had run Morgo's in the past. I had over 100,000 on the one I had. When I took it apart, it still had some of the honing marks. So, we ordered a new Morgo from England.

The kit arrived in less than a month. Around $500 total. I noticed two things immediately. One was how long the wrist pins were. And, there was no recess "cut" in the side of the piston where the circlips go.

As I checked the clearances, I found the rings butted together in the bore. To me, this was fine. But, suicide if you put the kit together "assuming" the ring gaps were OK. This allowed me to hand file the end gap to perfection. I then checked the piston clearance. At the bottom of the skirt. It measured around .005". Everything seemed fine.

In the first 10 miles, the motor seized. I was riding at 55 Mph up a very small incline in the road. I opened the throttle just a little. Then, instant seizure.

I read this is very typical for Morgo kits. CRAP!!!!

After taking the motor apart, I was expecting the seizure in the piston skirt area. Nope. It was across the wrist pin area. I then knew these pistons were not properly made. I had not measured, but I suspected the widest or fattest part of the piston was across the wrist pin. Not at the bottom of the skirt like ALL normal pistons.

In conclusion, I was able to ride the Morgo about 50 more miles after the seizure. It did have a lot of power.

For those buying Morgo kits, I would recommend opening up the bore at least .002" more. This would be around .007" on the piston skirt. This is not big enough to cause rattling as Morgos did in the past. But, it will allow for the extra clearance of the wrist pin area.

Also, I would recommend hand filing a recess on the piston where the clip goes. Like any normal Triumph piston. This part of the piston is NOT supposed to touch the wall anyway. Just hand file about a .015" deep flat area. This will prevent the seizing on the wrist pin area.

Then, set the piston ring end gaps. Don't build any motor ever without checking ring gaps to perfection. In the end, all the extra work on the Morgo will pay off. A normal shop might charge up to $200 to open the bore a little. The rest, you can do yourself

MAP kit.

My son ordered the MAP 750 kit the end of May. Rather than fix the Morgo (which I knew I could accomplish) he wanted the MAP kit. He was told around $1800 and 5-6 weeks lead time.

One thing we did not like about dealing with MAP is MAP was not contacting us with any updates. Ever. We always had to call them. You would think if you invested that much money, someone could call you with updates. Or drop a simple email. How hard is that??????

All summer my son called MAP. All summer, MAP said a couple more weeks. Then, the entire the fall months as well. Each time, my son was told just a couple of weeks more. 20 times??????

On Dec 4th, almost 6 1/2 months later, the MAP kit arrived. The quality is mind blowing. I have worked with every past 750 kit ever on the market and built hundreds of Triumph motors, but never seen this type of high quality.

My son opted for the black painted barrels and the nikasil. The kit comes with copper O-rings for the head gasket. It comes with special pushrod tubes. The piston clearance was as specified. The ring gaps were already set. All I had to do was bolt the kit on and ride.

The only poor quality part in the entire MAP kit was the rocker box gaskets. No wire reinforcement. I had plenty here already. I would never consider rocker box gaskets without the wire.

All in all, the MAP kit is better quality. The power increase over the 650 is about the same on either 750 kit. However, the lead time and extreme cost of the MAP may be out of reach for most people. If you follow what I said about the Morgo kit, this will make just as nice of a kit as the MAP.

Hope this helps
John
sportsprint is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 08:38 AM
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: T110 Triton
Senior Member
 
Triton Thrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Darkest Pulteneytown
Posts: 2,965
Seizures which mark the piston at around gudgeon pin height are typical of engines that have been detonating, usually caused by bad mixture tuning and/or bad riding (low rpm slogging).

Many designs of piston have no "flat sides" at the gudgeon pin ends. An example is the in-house Triumph piston, used before they switched to Hepolite.
Triton Thrasher is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 10:37 AM
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 67 Triumph T120C
Senior Member
 
Transgarp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 208
Other Motorcycle: 86 Honda XL600RG
Morgo piston with 0.0065" clearance
Bad idea

My kit seized in 2006
http://transgarp.dyndns.org/motorcycle/0800/morgo1.jpg

Now .008" clearance with my .020" oversized Morgo piston since 15,000 kilo and no problem
Transgarp is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 10:48 AM
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 79 T140E
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SouthEast Washington State USA
Posts: 296
Other Motorcycle: 75 T160
Extra Motorcycle: 69 441
Nice write up.
79woodsie is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 06:35 PM
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 1977 Triumph Bonneville
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Grass Lake , Michigan,USA
Posts: 5,160
Other Motorcycle: 1996 Ducati 900ss/cr
Extra Motorcycle: 2007 Ducati S4RS
$500 vs $1800 wouldn't leave me much of a choice. Dangerously close to what I paid for my bike. The Morgo kit used to be aluminum cylinder with fins shaped like the head, is that still the case ? MAP used to be cast iron cylinder that looked like stock. I assume it's solid gold now with a nikasil liner so you don't end up with a oil filter clogged with gold dust.
duc96cr is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 06:38 PM
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: T110 Triton
Senior Member
 
Triton Thrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Darkest Pulteneytown
Posts: 2,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc96cr View Post
$500 vs $1800 wouldn't leave me much of a choice. Dangerously close to what I paid for my bike. The Morgo kit used to be aluminum cylinder with fins shaped like the head, is that still the case ? MAP used to be cast iron cylinder that looked like stock. I assume it's solid gold now with a nikasil liner so you don't end up with a oil filter clogged with gold dust.

I've heard of cast iron Morgo barrels, but not aluminium.
Triton Thrasher is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 06:59 PM
Grand Prix 125
Main Motorcycle: '07 T100
Member
 
Will S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 34
Other Motorcycle: '68 Triumph TR6R
Extra Motorcycle: '71 Commando
Garage
Very good info, thanks!

2007 T100, ARK, Dominator Touring, Hagon shocks & fork springs
Will S is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2015, 07:01 PM
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 1977 Triumph Bonneville
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Grass Lake , Michigan,USA
Posts: 5,160
Other Motorcycle: 1996 Ducati 900ss/cr
Extra Motorcycle: 2007 Ducati S4RS
I remember magazine ads from years ago, but I saw one close up at a swap meet a few years ago. I dont remember much about it other than it was aluminum , shaped like the head fins, it had broken fins , and the owner was asking a lot.
duc96cr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
All posts must adhere to Forum Rules

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alternate front master cylinder and rebuild kit Rollinslow84 Hinckley Classic Triples 11 08-09-2017 11:58 AM
Matris FT105SE or FSE fork kit reidy41 Air Cooled Twins Technical Talk 2 12-19-2015 04:54 PM
Charlies filter kit fit, Tiger 750. tommytiger Classic, Vintage & Veteran 34 04-17-2015 08:06 AM
Fueling map issues? mangosmoothie ECM and FI Tuning - Help, Tips & Tricks 12 04-05-2015 11:02 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome