Throttle issues after TTP tune - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
Air Cooled Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, Bobber, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler. Sponsored by: triumphtwinpower.com

 17Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
Throttle issues after TTP tune

I recently bought a new-to-me 2010 Scrambler. Mechanical odometer, 2-1 Arrow, 8000 miles. I had a 2011 T100 from new til 2016, switched to a Street Triple, now back to the 865s. The best thing I ever did to the T100 was the TTP remap. So within a week of owning the used Scrambler I bought Scrambler Tune 4.

In one day I:
-Replaced plugs and wires
-installed AI delete
-installed o2 delete
-removed airbox baffle
-removed exhaust baffle
-installed breathe cover and DNA filter
-uploaded TTP tune 4

After the tune, I was still getting pretty substantial backfiring on run off. Mike from TTP had me check for exhaust leaks which I found. I took the pipe apart and added high temp silicone at all of the joints. Backfiring settled down but didn’t go away.

I re-siliconed the joints and didn’t notice any change...but in the backfire test rides I noticed the dreaded surge/stumble/throttle choppiness at low throttle openings. It’s maddening. A steady engine between 2000 and 3500 rpms is not possible. I can live with backfiring but not this throttle. Unfortunately I had the bike for such a short time before I tuned it, I can’t say if the throttle issue was there before the tune.

I have checked for induction leaks using propane and carb cleaner-none to be found.

Using TTP’ s tune loader software, the throttle bodies hover around 240-290 at idle while staying within 10 of each other.

The TPS voltage is almost always at 6.0v but I saw it briefly slip to 5.9v a couple of times while loading an updated map that Mike sent me after I reached out to him about my issues.

I’ve been searching for. troubleshooting guide for this problem on here but it looks like these are all case-by-case problems.


Any guidance would be appreciated
welfarebanks is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 12:44 PM
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: Thruxton
Senior Member
 
plodalong's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Griffith NSW Australia
Posts: 2,234
Other Motorcycle: 08 Bonneville efi
Garage
What fuel are you using? Maybe try non ethanol if thats what your currently using.
Had a Honda Hornet aka 599 that hated high octane fuel, farted and stuttered at low rpm but ran fine on the regular stuff.

07 thrux,Ram air ark, TPUSA manifolds Predator pros, 40mm Mikuni flatslides, ttp +3 ignitor,yss emulators,hp springs, Bitubo shocks,pingle steering damper,D9 layflat,2" rise clipons,shorai battery,Changes daily.
plodalong is offline  
post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
93 octane which is 10% ethanol here in Maryland. I also added some Seafoam to my last tank.
welfarebanks is offline  
 
post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
Other factors to note here:

-The bike starts and idles fine, and generally runs great while accelerating and maintaining speed at RPMs higher than 4000.

-with the throttle closed, if I quickly pull it open, sometimes it misses. About 30 seconds after a cold start yesterday, I blipped the throttle and the bike choked/stalled/cut off.
welfarebanks is offline  
post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:23 AM
Production 125
Main Motorcycle: 2009 custom Bonneville
New Member
 
Dan_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: North Staffordshire
Posts: 10
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by welfarebanks View Post
Other factors to note here:

-The bike starts and idles fine, and generally runs great while accelerating and maintaining speed at RPMs higher than 4000.

-with the throttle closed, if I quickly pull it open, sometimes it misses. About 30 seconds after a cold start yesterday, I blipped the throttle and the bike choked/stalled/cut off.
Interesting, I recently loaded a TTP tune to my Bonneville and even though I haven't experienced what you've described, I did noticed that when I read the tune from the ECU after loading it on via TTP's TuneLoader, there were missing values (0) in some RPM/throttle positions.

Download TuneECU and read the TTP map you've recently loaded on. You can see specific values by turning off the graph view under the display menu.

I've raised this with TTP and currently waiting for a response.

Current bike Triumph Bonneville (2009), TEC 2-1, O2 Delete, SAI Delete, TTP Tune.
Favorite riding routes, anywhere in the Peak District.
Dan_ is offline  
post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by welfarebanks View Post
Other factors to note here:

-The bike starts and idles fine, and generally runs great while accelerating and maintaining speed at RPMs higher than 4000.

-with the throttle closed, if I quickly pull it open, sometimes it misses. About 30 seconds after a cold start yesterday, I blipped the throttle and the bike choked/stalled/cut off.
Interesting, I recently loaded a TTP tune to my Bonneville and even though I haven't experienced what you've described, I did noticed that when I read the tune from the ECU after loading it on via TTP's TuneLoader, there were missing values (0) in some RPM/throttle positions.

Download TuneECU and read the TTP map you've recently loaded on. You can see specific values by turning off the graph view under the display menu.

I've raised this with TTP and currently waiting for a response.
TTP has since sent me an updated map which didn’t remedy my issues. They are currently making yet another map based off of my symptoms.

I did consider downloading TUNEECU, but I wouldn’t know the first thing about fiddling with air/fuel ratios. Does TUNEECU show real time values? It may be helpful to share what’s going on in my 2000-3500 rpm range with TTP.

Through all of this TTP has been helpful and attentive. This is in no way slander and I would still recommend them to anyone.
welfarebanks is offline  
post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 03:57 AM
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T100 SMQ SE
Lifetime Premium
 
Tornado99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,264
Other Motorcycle: 1974 Norton Commando 850
Garage
Sounds a bit like what my bike was doing. Been trying to cure what seems like a misfire/stumble while at steady speed/throttle held fixed. Every few seconds I can detect a slight drop in power for a moment...kinda feels like road bumps but it is too consistent. Tried renewing the ignition coil/plugs wires & caps/plugs. No difference. All potential air leak areas test fine with carb cleaner spray while idling. Vacuum lines to MAP sensors are still snug and show no cracks.
Today I checked the throttle balance with TuneECU....they were out a bit by 20 hPa. Tweaked the adjustment screw and got them bang on. Also noted the TPS was reading a bit high at 0.62-0.63v so I tweaked it to 0.60v as spec. Did a "Reset Adaptations" while in TuneECU but don't think I recalled the proper technique. Went for a ride. Well my subtle stumbles/misfires had become quite severe. Felt like engine was turning off then immediately on again, repeating some few minutes apart for the first 15 minutes of riding along city roads. Kept going while trying to narrow down an RPM range or throttle input that could trigger the effect. After about 35 min, including going up a mountain, decided to stop and record the effect. By time I'd climbed off bike, engine still running, put it on centerstand, pulled out my camera phone and started recording, I could not get it to happen again while camera was recording! Got back on and rode rest of day and only very occasionally did I detect the slightest stumble. It seems the problem may have cured itself after the ECU had gathered sufficient data points? I seem to recall some write up on what this relearning does. Something about requiring a bit of full throttle running for brief periods to fully adapt? I did a couple of points on the highway at fully open throttle.

Will continue to monitor but I think I may have finally cured this...
Forchetto likes this.

2013 T100 Steve McQueen; +NH Togas; -SAI; -O2; +Breathe; +TTP#3; +Avon RoadRiders; +Iron&Resin Sidebag; +Kisan Auto-Off Indicators & BrakeLight Flasher; +MatchlessClueless LED Brake & Indicators; +LED 3000 Lumens Headlamp; +DeCosse Keyless system

Last edited by Tornado99; 09-20-2019 at 04:03 AM.
Tornado99 is online now  
post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado99 View Post
Sounds a bit like what my bike was doing. Been trying to cure what seems like a misfire/stumble while at steady speed/throttle held fixed. Every few seconds I can detect a slight drop in power for a moment...kinda feels like road bumps but it is too consistent. Tried renewing the ignition coil/plugs wires & caps/plugs. No difference. All potential air leak areas test fine with carb cleaner spray while idling. Vacuum lines to MAP sensors are still snug and show no cracks.
Today I checked the throttle balance with TuneECU....they were out a bit by 20 hPa. Tweaked the adjustment screw and got them bang on. Also noted the TPS was reading a bit high at 0.62-0.63v so I tweaked it to 0.60v as spec. Did a "Reset Adaptations" while in TuneECU but don't think I recalled the proper technique. Went for a ride. Well my subtle stumbles/misfires had become quite severe. Felt like engine was turning off then immediately on again, repeating some few minutes apart for the first 15 minutes of riding along city roads. Kept going while trying to narrow down an RPM range or throttle input that could trigger the effect. After about 35 min, including going up a mountain, decided to stop and record the effect. By time I'd climbed off bike, engine still running, put it on centerstand, pulled out my camera phone and started recording, I could not get it to happen again while camera was recording! Got back on and rode rest of day and only very occasionally did I detect the slightest stumble. It seems the problem may have cured itself after the ECU had gathered sufficient data points? I seem to recall some write up on what this relearning does. Something about requiring a bit of full throttle running for brief periods to fully adapt? I did a couple of points on the highway at fully open throttle.

Will continue to monitor but I think I may have finally cured this...
“Feels like road bumps” is a good description.

I wonder if Thin mountain air could ease the problem?

Let me know if it finally works out. TTP sent another tune that I plan on uploading tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
welfarebanks is offline  
post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 12:37 PM
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville T100 SMQ SE
Lifetime Premium
 
Tornado99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,264
Other Motorcycle: 1974 Norton Commando 850
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by welfarebanks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado99 View Post
Sounds a bit like what my bike was doing. Been trying to cure what seems like a misfire/stumble while at steady speed/throttle held fixed. Every few seconds I can detect a slight drop in power for a moment...kinda feels like road bumps but it is too consistent. Tried renewing the ignition coil/plugs wires & caps/plugs. No difference. All potential air leak areas test fine with carb cleaner spray while idling. Vacuum lines to MAP sensors are still snug and show no cracks.
Today I checked the throttle balance with TuneECU....they were out a bit by 20 hPa. Tweaked the adjustment screw and got them bang on. Also noted the TPS was reading a bit high at 0.62-0.63v so I tweaked it to 0.60v as spec. Did a "Reset Adaptations" while in TuneECU but don't think I recalled the proper technique. Went for a ride. Well my subtle stumbles/misfires had become quite severe. Felt like engine was turning off then immediately on again, repeating some few minutes apart for the first 15 minutes of riding along city roads. Kept going while trying to narrow down an RPM range or throttle input that could trigger the effect. After about 35 min, including going up a mountain, decided to stop and record the effect. By time I'd climbed off bike, engine still running, put it on centerstand, pulled out my camera phone and started recording, I could not get it to happen again while camera was recording! Got back on and rode rest of day and only very occasionally did I detect the slightest stumble. It seems the problem may have cured itself after the ECU had gathered sufficient data points? I seem to recall some write up on what this relearning does. Something about requiring a bit of full throttle running for brief periods to fully adapt? I did a couple of points on the highway at fully open throttle.

Will continue to monitor but I think I may have finally cured this...
“Feels like road bumps” is a good description.

I wonder if Thin mountain air could ease the problem?

Let me know if it finally works out. TTP sent another tune that I plan on uploading tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
Just to be clear, I was up the mountain at altitude when I stopped to record the stumbling that had just happened at around 3k (also happened earlier at sea level). After I gave up trying to record it I went down and continued riding rest of day some 150 KMs and hardly detected any problem.

2013 T100 Steve McQueen; +NH Togas; -SAI; -O2; +Breathe; +TTP#3; +Avon RoadRiders; +Iron&Resin Sidebag; +Kisan Auto-Off Indicators & BrakeLight Flasher; +MatchlessClueless LED Brake & Indicators; +LED 3000 Lumens Headlamp; +DeCosse Keyless system
Tornado99 is online now  
post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '11 T100 EFI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St Mary's county Maryland
Posts: 447
Other Motorcycle: 7 ply maple skateboard
Extra Motorcycle: '76 Honda cb200t
I loaded the new (3rd) map from TTP. The backfire settled down, but did not go away completely. Still pops on deceleration.

I balanced the throttle bodies to 280 a piece.

Checked for exhaust leaks again-none to be found.

Ramped the TPS to 7.2, but the bike wouldn’t start haha. Put it back to 6.0.

I’m ready to take it to the dealer, but I’m skeptical that they couldn’t diagnose it.
welfarebanks is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options
All posts must adhere to Forum Rules

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome