Is there a no-start troubleshooting chart for FI 865's? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Is there a no-start troubleshooting chart for FI 865's?

We've changed the coil, spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, replaced the battery with a fully charged new one, fresh fuel, and still it cranks but won't fire. A cough or two, but no catch and run.

No codes showing with TuneECU. Compression seems fine after the new head gasket was installed. The AI system is gone. Vacuum lines checked to be supple and no leaks.

I am just baffled. It's a 2012 Bonneville SE with about 23,000 miles. This has me completely stumped.

What to try next?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 05:55 PM
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Give it a squirt of easy start, if it runs on that then you have a fueling issue. If it doesn't run then you have an ignition problem. Have you got the valve timing right?
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvw-bandit View Post
Give it a squirt of easy start, if it runs on that then you have a fueling issue. If it doesn't run then you have an ignition problem. Have you got the valve timing right?
I'll direct my son to this thread. He assures me he got the cams aligned correctly, I'm now left to wonder if the CRANKSHAFT was in the right position as the indicating marks on the cam gears were aligned. He did say he left it in 5th gear and didn't touch anything as he removed and replaced the cams.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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I went over to my son's house with my Fluke and didn't find anything wrong other than a slow-ish starter motor. Voltage while trying to start drops from 13.5 to about 12.8, and the battery is new. We had it on a 50amp charger to be sure. Still wouldn't start, and testing a spark plug yielded a nice sharp blue spark off the Iridium NGK plug.

Starting fluid did nothing. I suspect timing but am at a loss how to check it. He showed me photos of the timing gears with the TOP word oriented correctly and the mark aligned. This is being very stubborn, and hard to diagnose.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:21 AM
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It certainly sounds like a timing issue then. Have a search on the forum, there are several threads with info re this. Good luck with it.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 02:08 PM
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Most likely issue if the cams have been off is that a error was made on reassembly. Need to confirm mechanical timing as per shop manual. Got one of those, right?

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:18 PM
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This may sound really out there and no intentions to sound condescending but - Have you verified fuel delivery? Injectors electrically hooked back up after the top end work? Smell fuel after all the cranking?
You got cranking, you got spark, you verified timing -it should run.
Air
Fuel
Spark

Other than that - what about one of the safety items stopping it from running :
Side stand
Neutral switch
Clutch Switch
ect...

“Its all about motorbikes. Always has been, always will be”

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back2-2 View Post
This may sound really out there and no intentions to sound condescending but - Have you verified fuel delivery? Injectors electrically hooked back up after the top end work? Smell fuel after all the cranking?
You got cranking, you got spark, you verified timing -it should run.
Air
Fuel
Spark

Other than that - what about one of the safety items stopping it from running :
Side stand
Neutral switch
Clutch Switch
ect...
Verified (and tried various configurations) of sidestand and clutch switch. We know that neutral switch is OK, as that failed last year and we replaced it with new. The fuel pump charges, and we definitely notice it's not when we unplug it to try something different.

I had drilled into my son's brain the "running triad" of fuel, air and spark. The coil is a Honda-branded one, identical to the OE one. The fuel filter is new. We have had fouled plugs from being flooded, they are now new NGK Iridium's. The battery is a brand new Yuasa OE one.

It's down to pulling the cam cover off again to verify cam position is correct. I'm completely stumped if it's not that.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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Right side cover pulled off last night. Aligned the R mark with the case split at front of motor, and whaddya know...cams out of synch.

It's going to be a battle to find a new gasket within riding distance (or 2-4 hour car trip), so may have to order on-line and have the $5.90 part rushed in.

OTOH, I have good gasket-cutting tools and could do that if I can find the right material type and thickness. That's getting impossible to find in local suppliers!

I'm highly confident this was/is the problem. Thanks all for the help!
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Following up: I found a new right hand side cover gasket in stock a nice hour's ride away at Mark's Motorsports in Enfield CT and got to my son.

Good news is that he says it started up with the first push of the starter button, "easier than it's ever stated before in all the time I've owned it." The bad news is that the head gasket is weeping oil and may need to be replaced again. He had initially installed it reversed front-to-back and then flipped it back. It probably imprinted with the first torque-down and now there's a channel for oil. He says he'll try re-torqueing with another 5º turn, but if it still leaks after that, take it all apart again and get new gaskets.

Quite a learning curve. In retrospect, he did say he thinks he knows how he screwed it up. Something about having left the transmission in neutral during the first reassembly. That'll do it if there was nothing to resist crank rotation when re-installing the cam drive chain. Lessons galore learned!

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