Referring to the OEM parts book I have on pdf that lists everything for Bonnevilles and T100's up to the year 2010, the fork seal I need is Triumph part number T2047108.
According to the OEM parts list, it seems they all used the same oil seal from the 2001 Hinckley Bonnie until about then. The only change being the front forks which have changed from engine number 343765 in F2 and 342439 in F4, but according to the parts list the same seal fits both type of forks.
Decided to verify with World Of Triumph as they have a good parts listing. There info confirms all of this. According to them same fork seal fits all Bonnies and T100's both carbed and EFI until engine number 380776, presumably sometime after 2010, when the fork seal number changes. However World of Triumph do not use Triumph part numbers, they use their own numbering system and the oil seal number for my application is PFKL 1204746.
Checking some more through Hermys, they too have diagrams and use the Triumph part numbers but list parts and fork oil seals according to model year. They list year 2007 as an EFI model (which they aint) and having seal T2047115 from 2006 until 2014 . According to Hermys, 2005 and earlier Bonnevilles and T100's, use seal T2047108.
And SE Bonnies use a different seal again, part number T2044161.
Hermys fork seal numbers are at odds with the parts list I have and World Of Triumph.
As far as I know the fork inner tubes are 41mm for all Bonneville models, so am not sure what the seal change would be. Maybe it's the seal recess in the outer tube that has changed resulting in different seal outside diameters. It would seem that Triumph have used both Showa and Kayaba forks.
So the question is- should I be using T2047108 or T2047115 for my 2007 T100? And what is the difference between the two?
THERE ARE BETTER FORK SEALS OUT HERE, search the web. Also gaiter your forks once installed. New Bonneville, Bella Corse etc. have good gaiters or check the forum for the best recommended.
I hear what you are all saying, but dont want gaitors and seeing the OEM seals have done well just want to know which part number is correct and if anyone knows the difference between the two
My search on Hermy's shows the T2047115 as the seal listed for your year. However when the fitment application screen is brought up it shows carb models up to 2005, and then EFI 2006 and later. Of course we know EFI didn't start until some time in 2008. I have spoken with Herm Baver, the owner of Hermy's, and he is aware of the errors in his system and is trying to resolve them.
The good thing about Hermy's is they deliver quick, and will make it right if the product is wrong. They are my parts supplier of choice.
Of course they are a little out of the way for you, and I have no idea of shipping times to Melbourne.
G'day, not a fan of gaiters, had them on my 2001 for a few years then one day just mucking around I twisted one of the gaiters and water started dripping out. Cut them off and found the dust seals had rusted, so no gaiters for me ever again.
Pete.
Pete, not sure of the brand of gaiter that you had… but the Triumph gaiters have two weep holes in them… that a lot of people don't notice, btw… if you orient them the correct way… towards the low point on the back side of the fork… you'll never get any moisture/water build up in them. I've had mine for years and never a problem...
last Sunday evening moved the fork tube protector and the dust seal upward to look at the oil seal and wiped the area clean. put it all back in place and did my usual 50 kilometer commute return ride to work and when back home noticed an oily mark on the tube again. wiped my finger across it and it was oily fresh.
received a message from SCbonneville that went like this "Bonza, a friend of mine had a leaking seal on his Versys and was bummed about the prospect of doing a fork tear down and seal replacement… He did a bit of research and found that in some cases the seal isn't worn out, there is crud built up in them that allows the fork oil by the seal. The remedy is to get a very thin, stiff piece of some type of film… an old, unwanted 35mm film negative or something similar, works well… Trim a diagonal edge in it to give a pointed end. Wrap it around the fork tube and carefully insert the pointed end into the seal/joint and run it around the fork tube to "wipe clean" the seal… It worked for Kurt and saved him a tear down… It might be worth a try…"
so followed that advice, and after my 50 Kilometer commute today, it was as clean as a whistle, no oil on the tube at all. looks like using a piece of film to clean the seal has done the trick.
[/I]so followed that advice, and after my 50 Kilometer commute today, it was as clean as a whistle, no oil on the tube at all. looks like using a piece of film to clean the seal has done the trick.
As far as the different seals, one is slightly taller and has a larger OD. They started out with Kayaba shocks and changed over to Showa, maybe it's vice versa, no outer markings to clue you in..
All Balls seals are a lesser seal than oem although I am used to the off road segment so not sure what seals triumph uses. An aftermarket seal that is made by the NOK factory in japan is sold by ProX. That seal is OEM on many bikes and is very good quality.
Actually the only seal that outperforms the OEM seal in some areas is SKF seals.
SKF are higher performance with less stiction but in some cases may allow the seal to ingest more dirt. Not as vital on a road bike.
Regarding neoprene fork seal savers it is a good idea to keep them greased. I use water proof Maxima. Having your seals lubricated especially when they have to run over water spots etc. is the largest factor to long lasting seals.
NOK make the OEM Triumph seals too, I have heard way to many negative reviews of the All Balls seals, I would go with NOK or just get them from a dealer if they have them in stock.
Fork gators are ugly. Maybe useful but ugly.
I changed my fork seals 2 weeks ago. One was leaking. 49,000 miles. I bought them from Bike Bandit. They were Allballs. I liked they way they fit. Looked good. Happy. As for how long they will last I can't say yet. But it was a strange job. And I am an auto mechanic. 49 years. Also I work on Race Cars. 18 years for you Jerky Boys.
But pulling out the top fork bushing seemed odd to me. I would rather leave that alone. But it must come out. Then putting it back in was fun. I actually should have used a brass punch but I didn't have one. But it is done and done. I didn't scratch the slider.
I put PJ1 15W oil in them. It is a little stiff but I just love it. No more front end bouncing. Highway speeds more stable. NO brake dive. Better Corning. I feel more planted. More connected to the road surface. Just a little harsh on stutter bumps.
The first seal took me 2 hours to gather tools and figure it out then 15 minutes to do the other one. So it is s 15 minute job. Just get some seals from some place and change them.
If taken care of the All Balls seals will last. They are not of the quality as they are a higher friction seal. That is why KTM went to SKF as it is a more compliant and plush seal, plus being made in Italy, being closer, likely has a bit to do with it. But we measured the spring pressure on the SKF seal and it is half the spring rate so it is not squeezing the heck out of the chrome tube creating friction and static friction / harshness. In addition the material in the all balls is less compliant, then they add a second lip again adding to the friction. No different than building a motor, friction is the enemy! We do coatings just like the engine builders, polishing etc. then to put a seal in that negates all of that in addition to not lasting as long in many cases, omits them from our inventory.
That said SKF does indeed make a heavy duty seal that is double lipped and still has less stiction than All Balls.
If I was the type that would supply a cheaper seal to my customers I would likely use K&S as they also hold oil and are less money than All Balls and are made in Taiwan. I would bet they have similar performance and longevity though.
I generally take two hours to do a fork service as I take them down to castings for cleaning in soap and water to get a good inspection. Bit less time for open bath forks like yours unless we are track side and under a time crunch.
Going to a heavier fluid will slow the rebound considerably more than the compression and in a damper fork can be a useful tool.
I put gaiters on my Norton when I still had it. Of course, that was after a ride on which a kicked up stone hit the right side fork tube square right above the wiper. It then over time proceeded to rust. So I put the gaiters on when I replaced the tube.
If you don't like gaiters then you can get the fork shields like on the standard bike. But you really don't want to get the fork tubes dented.
Also, if that's what happened when a small stone hit it, what happens when 1000's of tiny specks hit the tubes? Kind of like a sandpaper effect I'm betting. Wonder how the seals like that.
Another vote against All Balls here. I have been told by two separate specialist suspension shops in the last couple of weeks that they last for a very short period of time. They both recommended either SKF or OEM if budget can't stretch to SKF.
I used AllBalls because that is what Bike Bandit sent me. I didn't research anything. In the passed on my old Hondas I always used transmission fluid. Not for any particular reason. I just had lots if it. Or power steering fluid. I can see more spring pressure and harder rubber not lasting very long. I'll see. I took my forks completely apart to wash in our solvent parts tank. Then brake dry clean. Then re-oil. Wash rinse repeat.
Dents in tubes from rocks etc. create a high spot that often tears seals. I use a really small and fine file to get rid of the high spot. I seldom use contact cleaner but in this case clean the pit with contact cleaner and fill with epoxy. Sand smooth starting with 400 grit and then fine sand with 600 is fine but some I go all the way to 3000grit in steps while spinning the tube.
Regarding the All Balls seals on a road bike if they are kept lubricated I think they will last quite a while.
My preference is SKF first and NOK second, You can get SKF in black for street bikes and I have yet to hear a complaint from using them. Just make sure to clean and polish the fork tubes and address any nicks,pits or scratches.
Quick tip for World Of Triumph part numbers. Just add the item to your cart and then look at it in the cart and it will show the actual Triumph part #.
when I first started this thread nearly three years ago, SCbonneville suggested to use some old 35mm film and wrap it around the fork inner tube then feed the film between it and the oil seal in order to clean any dirt caught on the seal lip that may have caused the leak.
it worked! and for the next three years and about 40,000 kilometers all has been well;
until last week. one of the fork seals began leaking again, this time a fair dribble, and by that I mean enough to spray on my calf and the engine giving that sweet burnt oil smell. I wasn't game to ride the bike any more once getting home as was worried about how it would affect the bikes handling
so have taken the plunge and ordered new oil seals and dust seals from the local dealer to rebuild both forks. unfortunately the dealer doesn't have any in stock so will have to wait as they are on back order
T2047109 is the dust seal number
T2047108 WAS the oil seal but this number has been superceded by T2047115.
the difference between the two oil seals being the height of the seal lip is 1mm higher on the newer part numbered seal. the oil seal is a dual lip seal to stop oil existing one side and to stop water,dust,crap ingressing into the fork from the outside.
outside diameter and inside diameter remain the same, of course
there was a hassle involving Loctite with that pesky cap screw that attaches to the dampener rod in the bottom, but I overcame it. I will start a new thread of how it went once parts are in and the job is finished
there was a hassle involving Loctite with that pesky cap screw that attaches to the dampener rod in the bottom, but I overcame it. I will start a new thread of how it went once parts are in and the job is finished
Great work bonza! Hope you don't have to wait for parts too long. When I did mine, with prop's fine thread here, it all went fairly smoothly, until re-assembly when the oil locks at the bottom seized and locked the whole thing up dead. Took them apart completely, tried again and of course it happened again.
I posted here completely at a loss at what to do, and BonnieBlack bailed me out with a good explanation and even sold me a nearly new pair. All went slick after that of course.
Mentioning this more to the guys here who've not done the re-build before, and the part those plastic oil locks can play in frustration. I'd never have known if BB hadn't jumped in.
the parts are here and I picked them up after work :smile2:
but this oil lock business sounds tricky. are they the plastic bushes with little springs inside that locate on the bottom of the fork and fit on the end of the piston dampener rod?
The issue can be that they become distorted even slightly and at that point dislodging the stanchion is near impossible without taking it all apart. A good whack at the bottom of the fork while holding it sometimes releases them, but not always.
At the time, this hadn't been described so I had no idea what was locking it all in place, but it can happen if they're [oil locks] not perfect. Cheap though to buy.
My mistake; I reviewed my PM's on this and it was Beemerich, not BB that bailed me on a set of nearly new ones he had.
Best of luck bonza, hope this doesn't slow you down!
161k miles on my 2010 T-100. Still sporting the original fork seals and gaiters. The rubber on the gaiters has taken on a greenish brown tint that won't scrub off, but the rubber is not cracking, and the fork tubes and seals stay bone dry.
161k miles on my 2010 T-100. Still sporting the original fork seals and gaiters. The rubber on the gaiters has taken on a greenish brown tint that won't scrub off, but the rubber is not cracking, and the fork tubes and seals stay bone dry.
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