Thoughts On a Modern Mid Size Range? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thoughts On a Modern Mid Size Range?

Hey hey, Hope everyones doing well!

I've been thinking and wondering, Triumphs modern's are all in the 9-1200cc range, and ever since the discontinuation of the daytona 675, theres nothing out there as an option for someone to own a smaller engine unless its a vintage engine. now i've listened to and read about the abandonment of the daytona's failure, generally for the power and engine size, the price point was too high and sales weren't going great for it, although it is an unbelievable bike. (please inform me more so if that is not the general idea)

Seems like the new scrambler 1200 is doing well, and is winning over a lot of people but still your range is 900-1200cc, which is still a huge and heavy bike to go off roading. Do you guys think that if triumph was to come out with smaller engines for a specific line in their family, (thinking more scramblers and enduros) that they would have success with it? it looks like the last mid size engine they did was in '92, with the exception of the daytona.

i guess my question is, do you guys think their would be a market for triumph to start making mid size engines again? maybe for a specific line up, do you think they would sell? anyone else been wondering about this? let me know your thoughts and concerns!
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 06:09 AM
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They will probably make a 650 twin to counter enfields imminent landslide success.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 06:30 AM
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For quite a few years now, I've wanted (preferably) Triumph (or anyone else, really) to make a retro, light-weight, air-cooled 500 twin. I guess that market research tells them there's no place for one. Ah well, no new bike for me.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by onlylyx View Post
now i've listened to and read about the abandonment of the daytona's failure, generally for the power and engine size, the price point was too high and sales weren't going great for it, although it is an unbelievable bike. (please inform me more so if that is not the general idea)
I thought it was more to do with it not being able to meet emissions standards. Aren't we getting a Daytona 765 at some point?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 09:08 AM
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What about the Kawasaki W-800?
Or find a 2007 W-650.
If you want a light 250-500cc off road bike, they still make those.

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/dual-sport

Taking a heavy road bike off road is just a bad compromise. Marketing has shown only a very small percentage of riders take their "adventure" bikes off road frequently and many never do.

The image of the "go anywhere" motorcycle is more of a marketing idea than a practical one. Big heavy bikes like the V-Strom, or the BMW's look great in photos but are not well suited to off-road no matter what they tell you.
To paraphrase Malcomb's line from Jurassic Park "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should."

I don't think Triumph will return to making 650's. Nor an aircooled bike.
As above, other makers still make "small" bikes. You're really talking about having something small in the bike "style" you want. I'm
Guessing there aren't enough looking for the same thing to make it worthwhile for your favorite companies to make it for you...
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Last edited by knifemaker; 07-05-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 09:47 AM
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I thought it was more to do with it not being able to meet emissions standards. Aren't we getting a Daytona 765 at some point?
The swedish general agent said insurance was almost the full price of the bike every year for riders up to 40y.o. in urban areas. Thats what killed it here at least.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 06:55 AM
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S'matter with a 765 Street Triple? It's certainly no "big bore" hunk like the 900 - 1200 cc bikes you mention. It's light, handles beautifully, etc. It is, however not cheap so are we talking mid-size engine or are we talking "cheap?" If you want mid-size and cheap then you're looking at something like a Honda CB500F. By the way, I have one of those and it is a pretty danged nice bike for the money. It has adequate performance, modest seat height, and gets fantastic fuel economy. It does fit under my latest requirements for a street bike which is that it has to weigh no more than 400 lbs. An interesting thought that passes through my head while I'm riding it though is that it weighs about that same as a Street Triple but has just about half of the engine horsepower. But it will go around the twisties fast enough for me at least. It's still more capable than I am in most situations.

However, I don't see Triumph dipping its toe into that market segment because the profits are just not there for the number of such bikes that they'd be likely to sell. It's the reason that Triumph will probably remain "up-market"---$$
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 07:41 AM
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The way the internet is gushing in its praise of the Royal Enfield 650 why should Triumph make an air cooled 650? The price the RE is listed for is crazy cheap (and regardless of what is being said they look cheap) . They are probably a fine motorcycle in their own right but to compare with Triumph is like apples and oranges

But RE give you a box of goodies like a scarf, keyring and cup.............why would you buy a Triumph?
Maybe for quality,style,finish,performance....oh wait it should be cheap I forgot

And as a famous saying goes 'Style is the one constant in life'

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PS please take this rant tongue in cheek
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 08:35 PM
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A friend worked for Ducati , 20 years as their tech instructor and warranty supervisor for much of the U.S. he posed the question to them of why they didn't bring our an entry level single again. Their reply was that is costs almost as much to set up assemble, and design a single as it did for a twin and the profit margin was not enough. The Japanese can do it but they sell a lot more. Many of us have hoped Triumph would bring back a "Tiger Cub" but it has yet to reach their consideration. There is no shame in going with another brand to get what you need.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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yeah i definitely agree that if i wanted a smaller or mid size engine that other companies, like any japanese brands, makes great off roaders, without a doubt, and definitely in that field there are companies that triumph (forgive the pun) triumphs in off roading, hondas, yamaha's etc...

i guess maybe it was when the new xe and xc came out i was like wow, they look great, the profile reminds me of a 70's husqvarna. but then i was like man, 1200cc's and from some reviews, obviously the weight was the concern of the bikes agility and ability. then i started thinking about steve mcqueens desert sleds, and scramblers and how great they were with the 650's, and how theirs definitely builders out there still grabbing old engines and rebuilding, i.e.. triumph bobbers, scramblers, cruisers, cafe's. theres definitely not a market for midsize engines, i recently (3days ago) just picked up a '79 xt500 and am so happy that i did, its been a bike i've been wanting for a bit and the price was great! but then again the power difference compared to a triumph is very different and maybe the companies interest doesn't lie there anymore. but i think it would still be pretty dayum cool, and if there was a midsize id probably consider buying one for sure.

as for RE, they're gonna be great as a city bike, and a starter bike i believe, not too powerful and the powerban isn't aggressive so it'd be a pretty safe ride for those purchasing it as their first bike. but man! i can't get over their new logo redesign, i think its absolutely ugly haha, and aesthetic plays a large part in the purchase, not only for me but for a lot of ppl.

what do you guys think of there rebranded logo??
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