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Help! ST Chain woes

7K views 39 replies 20 participants last post by  jsobell 
#1 ·
Hey folks!

I have a 2016 Street Twin with about 8000 miles on it. During my last chain cleaning I noticed that it was getting loose. As has been noted on this site, when I bought the ST I noticed that the chain tension adjuster was set to maximum tension out the door, meaning I can't use that to tighten the chain without removing a few links.

I took the bike into my local shop and asked them to remove a few links. After much buffoonery and hijinks, the mechanic revealed that the chain is a continuous chain, meaning no master link. I also found out that the chain manufacturer does not sell a master link for this chain in the US. The mechanics informed me that the only way to remove the continuous chain is fully compress the swing arm and remove the chain that way. That's an expensive process to do anytime I need to replace my chain.

The mechanics suggest that I cut the stock chain off and replace it with a master link chain.

Here's my question: has anyone had this issue with their ST or heard of this issue before? Is replacing the chain the best solution or should I suggest something else?

Thanks for your help!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
According to the handbook the chain is a DID 525 VM2. If so there are genuine clip-type master links around, like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-525VM2-X-Ring-Gold-chain-Master-Link-Clip-Style-525-vm2-/182475834572

Or complete chains with a rivet-type master link:

https://www.amazon.com/DID-520VX2-Rivet-Master-Link/dp/B0085SJKKK

Or loose rivet master links:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/DID-Hollow-R...888914?hash=item4d44640b12:g:EmoAAOSwXSJXPe~~

I don't know what the mechanic means by compressing the swing arm, unless the chain is broken by grinding a link off, the only way to remove it is to dismantle the swing arm and everything attached to it.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Grind one of the pin's riveted ends off. Just the pin needs cutting.

Remove as many links as needed with the above.

Reassemble the chain with a master link in place.

Seems pretty simple? Am I missing something?
@TheGreatVolare I see you are in the US. Complete replacement chains on ebay:

Gray - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DID-525VM2-120-LENGTH-GRAY-MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-525ZVM2-120ZB-/262899238566

Black and gold - http://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-BLACK-GOLD-PROFESSIONAL-X-RING-CHAIN-525VM2-112-L-/191936871699

British Customs is specifying 520 chains as replacements for the Street Twin here:

http://www.british-customs.com/cont...-twin-line/did-520-gold-102-chain-street-twin

http://www.british-customs.com/cont...-line/ek-chain-for-street-twin-102-link-black

I find that odd, maybe someone over at BC can clarify.
 
#5 · (Edited)
There were a lot of folk concerned about these bikes being delivered with the adjusters close to the end of their travel. One road tester seriously suggested this was because making it go further affected the wheelbase. It's a bit like saying that the tyres are under-inflated to lower the centre of gravity and seat height...:)

http://www.mcnews.com.au/triumph-t120-bonneville-review-motorcycle-test/

Here're the paragraphs:

The chain adjusters on all the T120 machines I have seen have no room left for adjustment, and are at the longest wheelbase setting possible.

I put both these points to Triumph UK via Triumph Australia, suggesting the chain adjuster position has likely been set at full length by the factory after final dynamic tests by development riders led to the ideal wheelbase not being achieved with the already signed-off-on new tubular fabricated-steel swingarm design.
 
#13 ·
There were a lot of folk concerned about these bikes being delivered with the adjusters close to the end of their travel. One road tester seriously suggested this was because making it go further affected the wheelbase. It's a bit like saying that the tyres are under-inflated to lower the centre of gravity and seat height...


http://www.mcnews.com.au/triumph-t120-bonneville-review-motorcycle-test/

Here're the paragraphs:

The chain adjusters on all the T120 machines I have seen have no room left for adjustment, and are at the longest wheelbase setting possible.

I put both these points to Triumph UK via Triumph Australia, suggesting the chain adjuster position has likely been set at full length by the factory after final dynamic tests by development riders led to the ideal wheelbase not being achieved with the already signed-off-on new tubular fabricated-steel swingarm design.
So after reading this i went to check mine. Here's the photo. As one can see the adjuster is pretty much at the end of its adjustement travel.
I'm no aircraft engineer, but several reasons for this.
They didn't didn't want to resize the chain @ the factory because that would translate into lost time and would have cost billions in production time. Let the poor schmuck that buys this thing worry about it.

Or getting a chain close to the minimum adjustment point shortens wheelbase dimensions and there is some handling anomaly. Or some kind of structural consideration.
 

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#6 ·
Is replacing the chain the best solution or should I suggest something else?

Thanks for your help!
It is not a difficult job to remove a link, or two, from your existing chain. The mechanic you mentioned seems a bit uninformed.

As Delta has suggested, grinding off the rivet heads of the pins of any link (or using a tool called a chain breaker) will allow the chain to separate and the link to be removed. If another link needs to be removed (it will), the same procedure is used.

Keep in mind that to re-connect the separate ends of the now broken chain, a master link (a link that can be removed and re-installed easily by the removal and replacement of a clip) will need to be used.

So, two links will need to be removed to accomplish the removal of one link in the overall length of the chain (because of the master link being added). Clear as mud?

My guess on the usage of 520 size chains is just convenience. The 520 size is more prevalent, as are sprockets. Just a guess, though
 
#7 ·
As a new owner of a T 120 mine is the same that's crap to have maybe one adjustment available before it's maxed out. Being a rider for over 40 years never have I gotten a new bike with such limited adjustments for the chain. My other bike a 2015 Kawaski Versys 1000 with 12000 miles still has half the adjustment left. With proper care it should make 20-25000 miles. My Triumph has 200 miles on it, I will be having a very sturn conversation with my dealer of how this can be taken care of.
Or I can just go bang my head against a brick wall both will be the same headache lol
 
#8 · (Edited)
With proper care it should make 20-25000 miles. My Triumph has 200 miles on it, I will be having a very sturn conversation with my dealer of how this can be taken care of.
I agree. One of the better characteristics of the older air-cooled twins is the long chain life, durability of up to 50,000 miles is not that uncommon on well-maintained and lubricated examples.

That was due not only to the superlative quality of their D.I.D. X-ring chains, generously under-stressed for the power available, but the small gearbox sprocket to swingarm pivot distance that minimises chain movement, achieved by having the swingarm pivoting directly on the rear of the crankcase, as well as the reasonably large gearbox sprocket (18 tooth) that helps with chordal action speed variations, and the two transmission shock absorbers: One in the clutch and a rubber vane cush drive in the rear wheel.

It would be a shame if that tradition is not maintained on the new bikes.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Interesting. I'd remembered that it was the new T120 that seemed to lack room for chain adjustment, not the ST. I recently adjusted the chain on my T120 for the first time. The adjusting bolts needed only one flat on each side for optimum tension.

Agree that the chains and sprockets seemed to last a very long time on the 2001 and later Triumph air cooled twins. On my 2003 T100, I replaced the rear tire for the first time at 8,300 miles. The chain had not needed adjustment up to that time. Granted, the new water cooled twins have the same size DID chain, but there's really no reason to assume that these chains are inadequate unless they don't hold up under a lot more service than most of them have now.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Maybe Triumph originally fitted a one tooth larger front sprocket, then decided on the smaller sprocket which would mean using up all the adjustment to compensate.

If you don't wish to split the chain, and If the motor will take it, an easy/cheap fix is to fit a one tooth larger sprocket, until it's new chain time.


BTW My new Tiger 800 looks to be well adjusted also, not much left.
 
#17 ·
If I were the OP, I'd look for a different mechanic. Removing the chain is as simple as grinding the mushroomed end of a pin off and pushing the pin through a link with a chain breaker tool. As @Forchetto already pointed out, master links are available to reconnect the chain. The solution here should cost about $5 and doesn't even require removing the rear wheel.
 
#19 ·
+1 to comments here. If the sprockets look good, grind off two links and re-connect with a press fit master. Don't use a clip except to test the new length. They will work, but eventually you'll have a failure and lose your chain. (ask me know I know). If you are lucky, it won't get caught up in the bike when it falls off. I'd also advise against trying a rivet tool. The only thing I've been able to successfully do with those tools is break the push pins. :) Not using a cheap tool either. Motion Pro.

Or, add a tooth the counter shaft sprocket until the chain wears out. :)
 
#20 · (Edited)
Sorry to hear you had a master link failure.
Expensive repairs if the chain comes off and whips around, tearing up the counter shaft housing... not to mention possibly locking up a rear wheel, etc.

However, after close to 50,000 miles, I've been using master link, 630 chains on my forty year old 77' KZ1000, which I bought new at the end of 1976.... for more then 36 years of replacements when needed.
I've NEVER had an issue with one and neither has anyone else I've ever known who has done the same.

I'd trust a well made master link and clip (installed correctly, and by that I mean with the sharp edges of the new clip plate over the pins the right way!), over using one of those $25 chain tools to peen the pins on a new link.
Yeah, I know it only take a tiny swedge deformation in the pin, using those tools, to keep the side plates on but I'm betting a lot of home shop mechanics don't do it right.
 

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#25 ·
I popped in to the local Triumph dealer today 13th October 2017, to check out the chain adjusters, very strange indeed. As stated elsewhere the Thruxton and the Thruxton R had the adjusters where I would have expected them to be on a new bike i.e. at the beginning of their available adjustment. However when I checked the Street Twin, T100 and T120 (all brand new) all three were at, or near the limit of their available adjustment. How can this possibly be acceptable.

Geoff.
 
#26 ·
That's been noticed early and often. It caused me some mild concern at first. Since new, though, my T120's chain has needed a total adjustment of just one flat on the adjuster screw, done at the 500 mile service. At this rate, available adjustment (even if it's not much) is going to be adequate for a very long time.
 
#31 ·
Ohhhhh. the pain ha ha!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#33 ·
I have just sent the message below to Triumph and will report back, don't hold your breath.

Good morning. Yesterday I visited my local Triumph dealer with a view to purchasing either a Street Twin or a T100. This would be my sixth Triumph having owned one 795 and four 865 Bonnevilles .

On the showroom floor were examples of Street Twin, T100 and T120. A's the sales staff were otherwise engaged at the time I had the opportunity to carefully inspect these models. I did notice that on the Street Twin the swing arm chain adjusters were at or almost at full travel and to my surprise the same applied to the T100 and the T120 indicating to me that this was intended and not an annomally . The sales staff were unable to give me a satisfactory reason for this hence my question. I have now deferred my purchase until an explanation is forthcoming.

Regards.
 
#36 ·
Got a reply from Triumph,


UK Aftersales Cases
13:32 (1 hour ago)

to me
Dear xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your enquiry.

The position you have viewed the rear spindles to be in on the classic models, is correct.

While it may appear that there is very little chain adjustment left, in service this has not been an issue, with adequate adjustment available for the expect service life of the chain.

Thank you once more for your enquiry, and we hope you decide to purchase either a new Street Twin or T100.

Best regards
xxxxx
Triumph GB.

Well that sounds about right and in line with what has been suggested earlier in the thread I would imagine once the current stock of chains run's out the next batch of production bikes will arrive with the rear spindles a little further forward in the swing arm's.

Geoff.
 
#37 ·
For me, any perceived lack of chain adjustment range is not a problem until it proves to be a problem. I noticed this characteristic on my T120 before I took delivery of it. I reasoned that my T100 had the exact same chain size that basically hadn't needed adjustment between rear tire changes. The T120 has proven to be the same way, so far.

Looks to me like the bike might have a heavier and more durable chain fitted than might have been logically specified. A lighter duty chain requiring adjustment far more often could have been used, and we'd never have known the difference.

I suspect that the "lack" of chain adjustment is an effort to maximize the wheel base on these bikes after the design was already frozen.
 
#38 ·
I have 15000 miles on my street twin and I just realized it's maxed out with both gears and the chain in good condition. It was delivered new near max adjustment. So far I spoke to a dealer on the phone, who indicated it must be my problem, as Triumph does not have a problem. I'm going to make the dealer look at it when I bring it in for recall soon. I won't be spending any money there, that's for sure.
 
#40 ·
I wonder if the lack of adjustment is because they intended to use a larger front sprocket, because fitting a 19 tooth front would reduce the adjusters by about 1cm (or one tooth to be precise).
As long as you still have purchase it doesn't matter if your alignment indicators are past the last mark, and if you end up needing 5mm of adjustment due to stretch and wear then your chain (and sprockets) will be pretty much screwed anyway. As long as the adjustment bolt still has decent purchase it shouldn't be a problem.
I'm pretty sure if you were really that badly bothered you could remove a link and still have plenty of slack :)
 
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