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Why do we have to pull in the clutch to start in neutral?

23K views 75 replies 37 participants last post by  rodhotter 
#1 ·
Like the title says. I've never had a bike where you have to have the clutch pulled in to start the engine if it's already in neutral, but the T120 requires it.

Why?
 
#12 ·
There have been variances of this type of "Nanny Device" for years. In the early 80's, Kawasakis gave you a choice: either neutral, or, pull in the clutch. Other Japanese manufacturers followed suit in some fashion or another. My 2004 Corvette requires depressing the clutch pedal all the way, regardless of the gear. (And yes, my Vette is a manual. An automatic in a Corvette is like taking your sister to the prom. She may be the hottest date there, but there's no action.)

My 2013 Triumph Explorer requires both, the clutch disengaged and the bike in neutral. And of course, so does my T120. Both have sidestand switches, which kill the engine when the sidestand is down and the transmission is clicked into gear. Just about all bikes I have ridden have had something similar except the old BSA Starfire I had once. (I did have a Kawasaki KZ440 that had a mechanism that snapped the sidestand up when in gear and moving out).

A quick check of U.S. regulations only require the right handlebar kill switch. So, it must be concluded, that the manufacturers are doing this to protect us from ourselves. I guess you can say "you can't fix stupid, but you can prevent it."

It's easy to blame lawyers, but the fact of the matter is that stupid people have convinced juries that the makers of the bike should know better than to put dangerous stuff in the hands of stupid people.

If this is really irksome to you, bypassing the clutch switch is relatively simple. But, you didn't hear that from me.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Then one fine day with your bike on its side stand and you standing next to it with ignition on and the neutral light burning brightly. You will casually press the start button to impress the casual onlookers and watch as your prize possession lurches forward and falls gracefully on its side.

Next thing is a letter from your lawyer about how Triumph stuffed up...:grin2:
 
#13 ·
Cranking up with your bike in gear (slipping out of neutral or on purpose) can create certain problems (like yanking you forward?), so if the clutch is disengaged that's one less thing to go wrong. Of course, you might have a broken clutch cable anyway, but then you've got a different sort of issue to deal with.
 
#18 ·
My new Ninja1000 doesn't require the clutch to be pulled in. I was surprised since all my previous bikes needed the clutch pulled in other than the oldies. But like BonnieBlack, I pull in the clutch to disengage the input shaft to help out the battery. Older BMW boxers would not let you idle the bike in neutral on the side stand. It could be worse I suppose.
 
#27 ·
Easy way to avoid pulling the clutch in while in neutral

Hi! Like you, I hate this feature of the T120. Needing to use both hands to start the bike while in neutral is a pain when gearing up for a ride (laugh if you want)! My other late model bikes (BMW R nine T, Ducai Xdiavel, Harley Fatboy) don't require this as they have a neutral gear position switch to control this (which makes more sense). Fortunately, I've found a very quick and simple way to override the clutch switch on my T120 (which I presume is probably the same on ST & Thruxton). Firstly, note that unlike the bikes previously mentioned, by overriding the clutch switch on the T120, the starter CAN be operated while in gear BUT ONLY IF the kickstand is up, so to avoid any nasty surprises if you hit the starter while the bike is accidentally left in gear, I recommend NOT overriding the kickstand switch to prevent the starter from operating. Now for the modification, which is a very simple process than can be revered if required in about one minute! First, here is an image of the clutch switch being removed by unscrewing the single screw using a T20 torx driver. Note the position of the switch plunger depressed by the clutch lever tab:

On the opposite side of the switch you can see there's a locating dowel that ensures the correct position of the switch when in operational position:

The switch can then be simply refitted in a "rotated" position so that the plunger is next to the lever tab (missing it) as shown in the next two images ,using the original screw. Obviously, the locating dowel will be out of position resulting in the switch not sitting flush, but this is how I mounted it for testing:


With the screw just nipped in place, this was fine for testing and everything has worked perfectly, with no issues at all so far.
If no problems are encountered after lengthier testing, I intend to simply file the locating dowel down to be "almost" flush with the switch body, allowing it to sit flatter so that this mod is virtually undetectable. If necessary for some reason in future, it would be a 30 second job to refit back into the original operational position.
I hope this is found to be useful to someone out there! Cheers!
 
#38 · (Edited)
Not so in the U.S. They would have to prove that your modification was what caused a particular system to fail. Blanket denial of warranties is not allowed. As for insurance, just call up your agent and let him know your bike no longer has that feature.

Oh and I never have a problem finding neutral on my Ducati.

Riddle me this, if this is such a great idea, why is it not used by the Japanese bike manufacturers?
 
#50 ·
Well Honda make quite a few bikes and I've never known a Honda that required the clutch disengaged in order to start when in Neutral.

There's a simple circuit with a couple of diodes that can be utilised, which works perfectly and only allows the bike to start when appropriate. It's so simple it's hard to understand why Triumph (and no doubt others) see fit to insist on having the clutch disengaged, even when in Neutral. They'll all cry "safety" but that's nonsense as you can achieve all the safety you need without forcing riders to perform this extra step EVERY TIME they start the bike, even when already in Neutral.

Unfortunately it's all down to product liability and manufacturers want to play safe and avoid litigation.
 
#32 ·
My first bike, a 1981 Suzuki GN250, would let you start it and run it in gear with the clutch out and kickstand down. I wish I could say I never took off with the kickstand down, but I'm guilty of that transgression.

Every other bike I've owned, from early '80s to late "oughts" would allow you to start the bike in neutral with the kickstand down and no clutch pull. Putting it into gear with the stand down would kill it. You also had to pull in the clutch to start it in gear with the stand up.

I had a '73 Toyota Corolla that had no clutch interlock. It was nice to be able to move the car in gear with the starter, when it decided not to start for some reason. Very handy for moving out of an intersection without having to get out and push. Every other manual transmission car, from '80s to "oughts" I've driven has required the clutch to be pushed in to start even in neutral.
 
#33 ·
The next step is gonna be bikes that won't start with the side stand down, even with the transmission in neutral and the clutch lever pulled in. After that, we'll have bikes that won't start at all. Think of the lives that could be saved!
 
#35 ·
The bikes will be sold for "decor" purposes only. The current tuner community will devote its time to defeating all the lockout devices that prevent you from riding. Of course, defeating those devices will void the warranties and absolve the manufacturers from all liability...
 
#34 ·
Figured the reason for the clutch lever out!!!

... So basically, if you didn't have to pull the clutch lever in to start these new bikes, there is a small possibility of opening a time travel portal, because the new bikes are so awesome. And Triumph doesn't want that as a liability or potential lawsuit... Makes sense to me!
 
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