Triumphrat

Caulky · 01-29-2010, 11:59 AM

With the gearbox in bits and clutch in various states of assembly,
and chains on or off,
I found it difficult to picture which parts were free to rotate or locked
to either the engine, rear wheel or gearbox.
So I made a list and drew a picture.
1. Gearbox sprocket and high gear assembly always turn together
...(splined to each other) and rear wheel if main chain fitted.
2. Clutch sprocket always rotates with engine...if primary chain fitted.
3. Gearbox mainshaft and clutch hub on a key/taper and splined shock
absorber always turn together.
4. Mainshaft rotates freely unless:
(a) clutch is assembled (and not operated by the lever...no plate friction)
(b) 4th gear dog (splined to mainshaft) is engaged to high gear dog.
(c) Any other gear is dogged/meshed via the layshaft.
In a nutshell, undoing various transmission nuts requires, rear chain on, 4th gear dogged to high-gear and for the clutch-nut the special locking tool,
and primary chain on.
Apologies for my poor writing and any inaccuracies

GrandPaulZ · 01-29-2010, 02:46 PM

You wheel-re-inventer, you!

The factory workshop manual describes in detail what needs to happen to what, in order to limit rotation when atempting to loosen or tighten the various fasteners.

As far as the clutch center nut, I've found a simple, yet elegant solution: Simple insert an appropriate length bolt between the basket and the hub, where the threaded tip catches one of the basket grooves, and the head catches one of the center hub grooves, then tighten away. (You still need to keep the engine from rotating by locking the rear brake with the chain installed, or insert a wedge between the primary chain and basket teeth)

PS - cool drawing!

GABMA · 02-24-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandPaulZ

As far as the clutch center nut, I've found a simple, yet elegant solution: Simple insert an appropriate length bolt between the basket and the hub, where the threaded tip catches one of the basket grooves, and the head catches one of the center hub grooves, then tighten away. (You still need to keep the engine from rotating by locking the rear brake with the chain installed, or insert a wedge between the primary chain and basket teeth).

This is a good way if you wish to bugger up your clutch basket or destroy your clutch hub!

There is an appropriate special tool for holding the cush unit. When you use the correct tool, you can then use the appropriate torque wrench to tighten both mainshaft nuts to the correct torque. Using the correct torque is the only way to make sure the nuts don't back off going down the road.

If you bodge the mainshaft nut torques you'll be walking home.

Plewsy · 02-24-2010, 05:41 PM

A clutch locking tool is easy! to make

Take a plain plate and a friction plate and bolt them together,
shove them in the clutch and lock with rear brake.

I don't like the bolt idea because of the damage it can cause to basket,
but it does work and can get you out the s**t, almost as quick as it can put you in it.

GrandPaulZ · 02-24-2010, 10:51 PM

I used the bolt trick many times (half a dozen of my bikes) without issues, till I finally came up with a spare plain plate (I had stacks of used friction plates), then bolted one of each to a 24" section of pipe with one end flattened to the appropriate length to bolt it all up.

At no time did I feel it was about to compromise either hub or basket by using the bolt technique, and I always applied a pound or two more torque than specified.

I still have all of those bikes, and no issues to date.

GABMA · 02-25-2010, 09:07 AM

There's a short cut for everything... brain surgery, cornea replacement, heart valve replacement. I wonder if you also encourage your surgeon to take these work-arounds?

The point is, the cost of the correct tool is about half the cost of the busted part and adds three times the reliability to the assembled machine. Why would anyone ever try this?

GrandPaulZ · 02-25-2010, 04:03 PM

Flame suit on - CHECK

Firm understanding that many folks dislike the Haynes workshop manual for Triumph big twins - CHECK

Okay, here goes...

Check out page 48 of the Haynes workshop manual...

I have no problems suggesting using the bolt method, in light of this bit of info.

GrandPaulZ · 02-25-2010, 04:51 PM

This brought to mind a happy memory of the time my older brother enlisted my help (I, at age 12) to overhaul his friend's VW mini-bus when it broke down here after they'd traveled from 250 miles away (they returned on a Greyhound bus).

When it came time to torque down the flywheel bolts, he had no torque wrench. So, he bought a gallon of water in a plastic jug, set up his ratchet with the appropriate socket, then slipped on a cheater pipe of about 24 long.

Then, he took out his slide rule and did some quick calculations.

He then carefully measured from the center of the bolt head to a certain point on the cheater pipe, and then drilled a hole in the pipe at that point.

Next, he strung a piece of thin wire through the hole in the pipe handle, strung it through the handle on the gallon jug, and tied it in a knot.

By this time, the flywheel was in place with all the bolts already nipped up, but not too tight.

We set the whole affair in order with me maintaining the ratchet in position as carefully as possible without affecting it's free rotation, and him holding the gallon jug, then releasing it and allowing it to slowly lower to the ground until the point where it stopped on it's own.

He assured me that his calculations were spot-on, and that the torque we just applied to those bolts was exactly the amount called for in the "Whole Earth" VW book.

Groovy, man!

Not long after finishing the overhaul, we drove the VW up to Austin to deliver it to his friends, with me sitting in the back so I could glance at the field-fabricated oil temperature meter he had devised from various bits, and stuck the probe down through the dipstick hole.

It performed flawlessly, with the oil temp hovering in the proper range the entire trip.

GrandPaulZ · 02-25-2010, 06:29 PM

After recalling this story, I sent my brother a link to it, so he could get a smile on for the afternoon. He replied with this:

"I had forgotten that you helped me with that. The book was actually John Muir's "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive", and it is still a classic. You can buy a used 30th Anniversary Edition of it for about twenty bucks on Amazon.com.

You forgot the best part of the gland nut torque wrench story: I did that part of the engine assembly inside the spare bedroom of our trailer. I opened the window of the bedroom to run the cheater bar extension out the window... the room was too small for the thing to fit in the room with the engine on the bench. The recommended torque on the flywheel gland nut is 250-300 lb-ft and five gallons of water weighs 41.7 lbs, so the arm needed to be about 6 to 7 ft. long. Out the window was the only way that long cheater would fit."

HA HA! Great story!

Webby · 02-25-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandPaulZ

Flame suit on - CHECK

Firm understanding that many folks dislike the Haynes workshop manual for Triumph big twins - CHECK

Okay, here goes...

Check out page 48 of the Haynes workshop manual...

I have no problems suggesting using the bolt method, in light of this bit of info.

In this case, to remove the clutch the Haynes worked for me, but to torque it back up I did it on the bike in gear with the rear brake on and a rather worried looking girlfriend sitting on the bike