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Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:30 AM   #181 (permalink)
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Great post, PieMan.
when I bought my Thruxton, I got thrown in the deal a set of TOR exhausts and a K&N filter.
I didn't get the filter immediately, I got it some time later when I got the time to swing by the dealer and collect it.
When I got around to installing it, I noticed that only about half of the the OEM filter had "dirt" on it, right about where the snorkel ends.
That was the start of my mechanical "what if..."

what if I removed the snorkel?
what if I removed the air box?

Then I rode a EFI Thruxton with pod filters, Arrow exhausts, Re-map, the works.
Truth is, although in high revs it pulls much, much harder than mine, it isn't as nice to ride around town.
One doesn't get the feeling of a better, higher performing bike. It feels more like a dedicated racer's bike.

So, like I'm sure many others, I don't really know what my future performance up-grade will be. I mean, the bike is fine for what it is, but if I were a snorkel removal away from an extra hp...

Last edited by georider; 11-05-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #182 (permalink)
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I wonder if anyone knows (offhand) how much Triumph invested in devising the optimal system for intake through to exhaust on the modern Bonnevilles.
Just curious.

Would think they had to spend -at least- a couple hundred thousand dollars/pounds/shekels designing, prototyping, testing and revising the whole kit and kaboodle.
Must have had twenty to thirty qualified engineers hammering away at it before bringing it to market.

Of course, they have bean counters looking over their shoulders focused on maintaining a price point for the package.
Not to mention, some experts in acceptable standards for various countries the bikes would be offered in.

I've not seen it published anywhere (the numbers.)
Maybe someone here has access to the inner workings of the Company, or actually work for it (either in the UK or here in the US.)

It's an interesting proposition; in consideration of the difference between infrastructure investment of a multinational, multimillion dollar Corporation and what a Shade Tree operation has going for it.
You know, balancing it all out in a kind of perspective.

Failing, of course, to even mention the 'weird science' aspect.

Pipe right in. Enquiring mind wants to know.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Of course the Factory's engineers could design intake and exhaust systems for optimum power far better than anybody, given the resources, skills and money available.

The trouble is that they're presented with all the constraints of eliminating noise and reducing emissions according to present and coming regulations as well as minimising fuel consumption.

They're further handicapped in the Bonnie's case by the old fashioned layout of a full cradle tubular frame housing a relatively massive engine and carbs (or EFI equivalent). There just isn't enough space to house more than a rudimentary envelope for an air filter element in what's in effect an intake silencer box. Look at bikes that used this classic layout from the 50's and 60's. Most didn't even have an air filter and only a tiny battery (no electric starter, etc).

Witness the tiny and often proved inadequate battery they are obliged to fit through lack of space.

Last edited by Forchetto; 11-05-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Right!
based on an expert advice (thanks dad!) I'll try to fabricate this:

Using the biggest part possible of the air horn, I'll make a bell... exit.
The bell will go (hopefully) inside the air box.
Something like this: (foto Forchetto)




Apparently this contraption slows the air as it enters the air box thus increasing the pressure
I know it looks silly but, hey, it's a free mod and it comes highly recommended.
The red plastic horn is easy to sand, cut and/or deform (via heat) to any shape.
I know if I it give a cool sounding name, the placebo effect will be tremendous.
I'll call it "high pressure intake super flow master air velocipressuriser"
I'll give it a go.
Now, where did I place the football (soccer) horns?

Last edited by georider; 11-05-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forchetto View Post
Of course the Factory's engineers could design intake and exhaust systems for optimum power far better than anybody, given the resources, skills and money available.

The trouble is that they're presented with all the constraints of eliminating noise and reducing emissions according to present and coming regulations as well as minimising fuel consumption.
Absolutely, manufactures must stay within the acceptable emission and noise constraints of the current standards and still produce acceptable power. This is exactly why Triumph ditched the carburetors for EFI. Less intake noise, more efficient A/F metering for various conditions.

This however doesn't suggest the engine is running at peak effeciency or can't be modified to run more optimally.

Last edited by ShaneDuc; 11-05-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:59 PM   #186 (permalink)
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This however doesn't suggest the engine is running at peak effeciency or can't be modified to run more optimally.
Absolutely. It's the same with car or bike EFI tune maps. If you're going for maximum power disregarding anything else a tuner can create a good map in days. However to keep within all the regulations, noise emissions and vibration levels, aceptable fuel consumption, driveability, reliability, etc I'm told it takes many engineers months to achieve a suitable map.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #187 (permalink)
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The whole history of the motorcycle, not to mention the cafe racer scene, has been hinged around "shade tree operations" ever since it's conception. Some of the most advanced chassis designers, suspension manufacturers, and engine tuners have come from modest machine shops and diminutive engineering companies. It's what it's all about.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:09 PM   #188 (permalink)
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I'm sort of going on a "mythbuster" crusade here.
I'm making the former described contraption (yes, really) and obviously some sort of means to measure results is needed.
I thought of using an Android app that registers acceleration, speed, time etc.
I'll be accelerating to the ton several times to get an average with the snorkel, without it and with the "high pressure intake super flow master air velocipressuriser". Ok, the reverse bell mouth.
Stupid?
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:19 PM   #189 (permalink)
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what app is it?
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:31 PM   #190 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by grzegorz View Post
what app is it?
It's "Smart Speedometer"
Add free, 140KB

Hummm... I think we're getting a major breakthrough here.
If all of us used the same app to record performance, we could easily compare results and graphs.
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