Triumphrat

GleaminTwin · 06-24-2008, 10:30 PM

Hey Guys, I'm going to upgrade my suspension, and I was considering installing new shocks, either Hagon or Ikon, and either new progressive front springs or having the fork taken off and sent in to a specialist suspension tuning shop and having it redone by them with new valving and their choice of springs. The stock suspension has been bone jarring, and if I hit a pothole that I didn't see coming it's dangerous, so I decided to take the plunge and get some higher quality running gear. For those of you that have changed your shocks, did you use new mounting bolts or reuse the originals with a little loctite? So any opinions on the optimum suspension set up for all around rough city type road use and also 70 - 80 mph parkway cruising? Cheers, all .. GT

scramboy · 06-25-2008, 01:29 AM

Sounds like your onto it GleaminTwin,
My set up is: Ohlins Emulsion (non piggy back) shocks with spring preload, rebound, n ride height adj. (standard mount bolts are fine).
Alot of guys are leaning towards YSS shocks.
If you retain the original mufflers, be sure that a piggyback shock will fit properly.
My front set up was done by a professional to my terrain n specs:
traxion springs, fork valve emulators to change them from damper rod, to a sort of cartridge style.
Best mod dollars you will spend, but i do suggest getting a suspension specialist to do the forks.MHO

Skidplate865 · 06-25-2008, 10:14 AM

What made you choose the Ohlins Emulsion (non piggy back) shocks? Did you actually try to fit the Ohlins w/ the rebound canisters and they butted up against the exhaust? More than just idle curiosity, I'm planning on upgrading to Ohlins at the end of August (birthday).

Also, what does "progressive" refer to when talking about fork springs?

scramboy · 06-25-2008, 06:45 PM

The Ohlins were being made up in a town about 3hrs drive from where I live by the NZ agent, and going by the pics and measurements I supplied, Robert thought they may be a bit too close to the top muffler indent.
He did offer to send up a mock up assy to see what the clearance was like, but I chose to just go with the emulsion shocks. (they are still very very good, and cheaper).
If you are going for the piggybacks, I'd suggest riding to the agent, and trying for clearance first.

GleaminTwin · 06-26-2008, 01:45 AM

Thanks for the tips! I'll check out the Ohlins as well as the Hagons, apparently Hagon makes a higher performance shock along with the retro ones that are shrouded. I saw their full range on the Bellacorse website and also Newbonneville sells the Ikons and the Ohlins, I'm not sure if they sell the Hagons. Skidplate, the progressive fork springs are a fairly inexpensive way to have a more supple front suspension. They are longer than the stock springs, and part of them are wound with a more absorbent spring rate, absorbing the minor bumps, and then the other 80% of them are wound with a stiffer spring rate to absorb the major shocks. Not sure which route to take because I really don't ride my bike like I stole it, I take it pretty easy. But the city streets throw a lot of bumps and pot holes my way, so for absorbing rough city bumpy streets is what I really need a more supple suspension for. Maybe for me, the less expensive and very cool looking black shrouded Hagons with the progressive fork springs would be a big improvement and not cost a whole lot. Then again, if the more expensive higher performance rear shocks and sending the front fork out to custom tuned would really help a lot in the comfort and handling departments for real life city riding I would be willing to spend the extra money. So, is the high performance stuff only really appreciated in fast, highway, twisty road riding, or is it a dramatic improvement for bumpy city riding over the cheaper combo I mentioned above? Thanks, guys, for the tips, cheers .. GT

scramboy · 06-26-2008, 02:26 AM

The art of suspension tuning has a few pot holes itself.
Firstly, the scrambler has limited travel front n rear, so it will never "float" over the bumps and holes like a long travel trail bike suspension. So it has a very limited amount of time to absorb, control, and dampen the road/track surface.
Secondly, the forks are 1950's technology, (Damper tube), which is the worst of both worlds. (mushy over slow speed bumps, and "hydraulic lock" on high speed bumps). No matter what spring goes inside, the rebound, and compression dampning is as basic as it gets. (fixed orifice).
Good springs, and cartridge emulators tuned to your enviroment are as good as it gets, but remember you have limited travel, so expecting a plush, perfectly controlled set up is still a hard task.
Hope this helps.
Re Hagon, Ikon, or Ohlins: Off the shelf assy's very rarely have the internal settings that are perfect for everyones riding/location/road surface. This is why finding a suspension tech/company that can be trusted to set your suspension up for you is money well spent IMHO.
Cheers.

One last comment. Whether you are the best trackrider, or an average m/cyclist (like myself), good suspension is more about safely controlling the bike than hundredths of a second off lap times. I'm sure Joe racers wife or Joe averages wife both want Joe home for tea. Good suspension helps you to safely get home.

johnyC · 06-26-2008, 04:48 AM

scramboy,

I wonder if the Ohlins piggy-backs would work the 'wrong' way round? I tried a pair of used (very used, as it turned out) ZRX shocks on my bike:

shocks mounted 'wrong way round' to clear exhaust

They worked ok for a while, but I knew that the oily smears I saw on the damper rods (when I pulled the 'good condition' described ebay items out the packet) meant their days were numbered.

I fitted Ikon fork springs which I find, even after experimenting with different preload spacers and oil weights, are a bit harsh compared with the Hagon springs (for the way I ride)

For the moment (skint after a holiday at the TT) I'm just bouncing and clattering along on the appalling standard shocks (hopeless two-up)

I tried Hagon then Ikon shocks on my previous Scrambler, along with Hagon fork springs and my personal preference would be what I had on the first bike: Hagon fork springs and Ikon shocks (because they worked out of the packet, even two-up)

shorter bonnie length Ikons fitted, to lower bike height.

scramboy · 06-26-2008, 07:47 AM

They might be a goer in the reversed direction, (and also in the normal position). I just bailed of going piggy back because Robert assured me the emulsion units would be fine, and I wasn't totally sure of clearance.
It will be good to see a scrambler with std, or TOR pipes fitted up with piggybacks.
I'll have to pass, as my missus has talked me into fixing up a 98 Bandit 600 for her. Sheesh, doesn't she know the garage is cold in winter

quirky · 06-26-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scramboy

The art of suspension tuning has a few pot holes itself.
Firstly, the scrambler has limited travel front n rear, so it will never "float" over the bumps and holes like a long travel trail bike suspension. So it has a very limited amount of time to absorb, control, and dampen the road/track surface.
Secondly, the forks are 1950's technology, (Damper tube), which is the worst of both worlds. (mushy over slow speed bumps, and "hydraulic lock" on high speed bumps). No matter what spring goes inside, the rebound, and compression dampning is as basic as it gets. (fixed orifice).
Good springs, and cartridge emulators tuned to your enviroment are as good as it gets, but remember you have limited travel, so expecting a plush, perfectly controlled set up is still a hard task.
Hope this helps.
Re Hagon, Ikon, or Ohlins: Off the shelf assy's very rarely have the internal settings that are perfect for everyones riding/location/road surface. This is why finding a suspension tech/company that can be trusted to set your suspension up for you is money well spent IMHO.
Cheers.

One last comment. Whether you are the best trackrider, or an average m/cyclist (like myself), good suspension is more about safely controlling the bike than hundredths of a second off lap times. I'm sure Joe racers wife or Joe averages wife both want Joe home for tea. Good suspension helps you to safely get home.

I've seen the bike expo specials, the heavily modified Thruxton racer that had Öhlins front and rear, and the black Scrambler which had the Arrow exhaust and Öhlins piggybag rear shocks but alas, the front seemed to be the original one.
I wonder if anyone has found any suitable replacement forks to mount in the Scrambler..?
Something that wouldn't break the bank.

scramboy · 06-26-2008, 06:26 PM

One of the Scrambler riders over on Adv rider was looking for somw BMW650GS front forks (i think), to retro fit to the front.
Not sure if it ever was achieved though.
I have seen a photo of a heavily modified scrambler, to the point where it relly was just the engine that was identified as Triumph. (frame/wheels/suspension all changed). Any thing is possible with time money n steel/alloy, but in going too far, the essence of the bike might be lost.
On rough/ steep tracks that I occasionally ride with trail bikes, I ride it like a big Enfield Bullet, (park your bum on the seat, and use the gobs of torque), while the trail boys are up on their pegs wheel spinning up steep hills, the scrambler will hold grunt just off idle like a truck, and chug on up. (frustrates the hell out of bikes that need momentum to make it). But when a ride gets very rough n slippery, I leave it to the light, well suspended machines.