Triumphrat

snark · 04-04-2007

Finally couldn't resist trying my Scrambler on a fairly decent trail, not too steep or soft, to see how much dirt it could handle. The answer, as I suspected: not very much. Lots of fun while it lasted; i. e., until we hit one soft spot on a sharp curve followed by a mostly buried rock, and the bike and I went down on the right side. Only damage was a dinged brake lever, scratched side panel (the one over the fuse box, replacement price 125 bucks for a piece of black plastic), and busted footpeg (brittle stuff, broke off like a Baby Ruth). Just had to determine the limits, I guess, and that I did. A heavy bike (versus old Triumphs) with a high center of gravity. A riot to ride but look for me on roads, dirt or paved.

bgaz · 04-04-2007

I would think so...

I ride the 1969 Daytona in the dirt a lot, and fast, and have taken some bad falls, I once broke by back, but nothing on the bike broke, get up, put the headlight back in its shell, bend the front wheel straight, bend the peg back, and you are good to go.

Shifter, rigid peg mounts, levers, they all just bend back without breaking....
I get a new chain and (paper) air filters every year and thats it! Talk about low cost dirt riding!

My big problem was the k70 tires, sort of big tread but narrow for sand and NOT knobby tires!
I found a dual purpose tire for the back, but the front is a 19
inch and there are very few dual purpose tires in a 3.25/4.00 19 inch size!

No, I cant do motocross with the suspension I have, but can go fast down dirt roads and trails having fun missing big holes and so on...like 60 or 70 mph..
At about 350 pounds and a low center of gravity, you can get away with a lot even without suspension and knobbies.

The great thing is, I never broke or wore anything out from hard dirt riding, done over 15,000 miles in 3 years with about 25% dirt riding....

The old ones were built well!

Brett

snark · 04-04-2007

Right, the Daytona is a great-riding bike in the dirt or anywhere. Handles better than the Bonneville I own and far better than the Scrambler. Lighter than the Bonnie and I believe it has a bit shorter wheelbase, which helps. I have a K70 on the front and an IRC Grand High Speed 4.00H18 on the rear, still in good shape though I don't think it's made any more. It's fatter than the K70, profile more rounded and not too knobby. Knobs are bad in the sand down here in Florida.

But 60 or 70 mph on bad roads, a broken back! No thanks -- you're way better than I am.

bgaz · 04-04-2007

Yes, I think it would be the greatest bike in the world with a 5 speed transmission and a bit more power.
As it is, I have a 20 tooth front sprocket on and the wide ratio trans...that gives lower rpm on the road but still a nice low 1st gear. Sometimes I put a 21 tooth on front...

Top speed is limited to 85 mph as I am out of the powerband, but it will do 85 in 3rd or 4th gear!
4th has been turned into an overdrive sort of.

I have 45 weight oil in the forks, that works well in them, they are not like modern forks that use 10 weight oil..
The fork oil and the smaller silencers are the only real changes on the bike besides head work and boyer ignition.
It DOES handle much better than modern bikes, but its small and light, you have to expect that.

I have got about 6 tickets on the Daytona, none on the Bonneville....
Even a poor rider can go fast on a Daytona...

When I think about riding the Bonneville down dirt roads and trails at speed, I had the idea that would be real painful, no matter what tires it had on it...just to much weight, and it seems high up.
I see broken parts and broken bones, and a huge bill to pay.

It would be nice if Triumph built a 500cc go anyplace do anything classic looking twin, you would think with MODERN materials they would be able to get it to 350 pounds and 45 hp, after all, there is NO plastic on my Daytona...

If you was to ask me, going larger makes for a poor bike in anything other than a hiway sled.

Brett

snark · 04-04-2007

Everything you say about the old Triumph 500s makes sense -- and also about how welcome it would be if Triumph would make a 500 today. I'm a big advocate of the 500. Old Triumph hands will say it's "buzzy" and that it costs just as much to repair or restore as a 650 but won't ever be worth as much, etc. Well, so what. The 500 still rides better except at top speed, as you say.

Actually the Bonneville I was referring to is a '69, not a new one. A great bike but almost ponderous compared to the Daytona. More vibration (for some reason it's harder to get the carbs in sync), more valve noise even when well-adjusted, and harder to kick over (and over) on days when it doesn't want to start.

Still, there's this: When I've got to go somewhere sixty miles away and get there for sure, on time, I take the new Scrambler. In years of riding the Daytona and Bonnie I've never been stranded by either one (dumb luck); but the odds are obvious enough.

mayfiebl · 04-04-2007

I take mine on fireroads and some desert trails and no real issue, I wish i could post it but mine has been buried in mud, It will plow, its heavy but trails and fireroads no problem....Keep it easy its a half or more street bike

BigE · 04-04-2007

Quote:

On 2007-04-04 08:46, bgaz wrote:
snip....

My big problem was the k70 tires, sort of big tread but narrow for sand and NOT knobby tires!
I found a dual purpose tire for the back, but the front is a 19
inch and there are very few dual purpose tires in a 3.25/4.00 19 inch size!

.....

Just an FYI, there are quite a few dual sport tires now in 19". That's what alot of the "trailie" models use. I tried one on the back of my supermoto stock mx rim, a bit too skinny to handle 50hp on the rear but the front 21" I raced with until swapped to 17's. Fact is I still have that tire in the garage if anyone is interested in it (Mich. Anakee 110/90-19), PM me.

bgaz · 04-04-2007

The 500cc bikes were buzzy because they spin so fast.
Stock at 65 mph they are around 5000 rpm or maybe more.

In the old days, the only way to get much power out of a small motor was to spin it fast.

Since the 650 bikes are so in demand, the 500 parts are cheap, I got new old stock cylinders, pistons, rings, wrist pins, all as a set for $290.00.
I got a new old stock exhaust for $120.00, and a new old stock original paint, like new gas tank for $290.00.

I also got a used motor for $150.00.

You cant get new parts that cheap for any motorcycle.

Brett

Quote:

On 2007-04-04 11:31, snark wrote:
Everything you say about the old Triumph 500s makes sense -- and also about how welcome it would be if Triumph would make a 500 today. I'm a big advocate of the 500. Old Triumph hands will say it's "buzzy" and that it costs just as much to repair or restore as a 650 but won't ever be worth as much, etc. Well, so what. The 500 still rides better except at top speed, as you say.

Actually the Bonneville I was referring to is a '69, not a new one. A great bike but almost ponderous compared to the Daytona. More vibration (for some reason it's harder to get the carbs in sync), more valve noise even when well-adjusted, and harder to kick over (and over) on days when it doesn't want to start.

Still, there's this: When I've got to go somewhere sixty miles away and get there for sure, on time, I take the new Scrambler. In years of riding the Daytona and Bonnie I've never been stranded by either one (dumb luck); but the odds are obvious enough.

DrPat · 04-04-2007

yeah, they're too heavy for any sort of serious dirt riding, but great on any sort of rough road, track, beach or whatever.
Snark, do you wanna sell me your damaged RH sidecover? Lost mine on a windy day, and they're hell dear down here - cheers, Pat

Davorallyfan · 04-05-2007

Quote:

On 2007-04-04 21:18, mayfiebl wrote:
I take mine on fireroads and some desert trails and no real issue, I wish i could post it but mine has been buried in mud, It will plow, its heavy but trails and fireroads no problem....Keep it easy its a half or more street bike

Good on you

The 270 engine is great for breaking out the rear on a dirt road - a total hoot - I got a TKC on the front now and the rear follows the front eventually - fun on the smoothish terrain but tou need to slow down for the knarly stuff.