Linked Brakes: Anyone ever have 'em? - Page 3 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2012, 08:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
Supersport 600
Main Motorcycle: Hyde Harrier
 
Siskiyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 163
Other Motorcycle: BMW GS
My '05 1200 GS has linked brakes + power assist + ABS. Later bikes did away with the
power assist but retained the linked brakes and ABS. BMW developed the power brakes
to reduce reaction time (from when the rider first pulls the brake lever until full brakes
are applied). The idea was to reduce stopping distance, which it did. I can tell you,
when I grab a handful of brakes, the thing stops, right now! But the buyers didn't like
the somewhat wooden feel of the brake lever and the cost of a replacement pump is
a large percentage of the GDP of some countries. Kartoo is right about fluid changes,
which are also crazy expensive, but that is more related to the ABS system, which
BMW has since changed. I think you're right about the connections for the linked brakes
being relatively simple: what probably won't be simple is getting the brake balance
between front and rear set up properly. After all, the rear caliper on the Triumph is
different than the one used by Honda, so the response won't be correct.. I think
that linked systems use a proportioning valve, which I imagine would have to be
designed for the calipers in use, weight distribution of the bike, tire size etc, etc, etc.
Seems like a lot of trouble to go to with an uncertain outcome. Besides, one of the
nice things about Triumphs is that they're fairly simple, (unlike BMWs).
Siskiyou is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-30-2012, 09:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 2004 Thruxton
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 2,670
Other Motorcycle: 1954 BMW R25/3
Extra Motorcycle: 1971 CB350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siskiyou View Post
I think you're right about the connections for the linked brakes
being relatively simple: what probably won't be simple is getting the brake balance
between front and rear set up properly. After all, the rear caliper on the Triumph is
different than the one used by Honda, so the response won't be correct.. I think
that linked systems use a proportioning valve, which I imagine would have to be
designed for the calipers in use, weight distribution of the bike, tire size etc, etc, etc.
Seems like a lot of trouble to go to with an uncertain outcome. Besides, one of the
nice things about Triumphs is that they're fairly simple, (unlike BMWs).
Without considering the added complexity/quirks from folks having ABS or power assist in combination with the linked brakes, most who've had the linked brakes seem to like them. The only way I will know if it's something I'd like to have is to give it a go. As you point out, the size of the rear master cylinder & caliper piston diameters and their ratio to the front caliper piston will need to be determined/evaluated in light of the proven linked brake formula applied by Honda on their bikes.

So I'll do some (free) online research to see exactly what is required. If it's as simple as adding a line or two/possibly replacing the rear master cylinder or rear caliper, then it may be worth the effort. Full brake system replacement with addition of a proportioning valve and/or other components to get things balanced out is beyond the scope of what I'm going for here. A free hole drilled in the right side caliper to join the 3 pots is a lot more practical in that regard...

Cheers,

--Rich
beemerrich is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2012, 05:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 2010 Bonneville SE
 
tntriumph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smoky Mtns of TN, USA
Posts: 300
Other Motorcycle: 2006 Yamaha FJR
Rich,

My Yamaha FJR 1300 has "Unified" braking, wherein the rear brake pedal operates 1 or 2 pistons in the front brake calipers, and it also has ABS. Not sure how all the magic works, but it works seamlessly and quite well. Easy, well modulated, two finger stopping with the front brake lever. Never had any issues using a little rear brake to adjust speed into a corner or even at slow parking lot speeds. An interesting feature of the FJR front brake calipers is one brake pad per piston (4 pads per caliber).

Richard
__________________
See you somewhere down a twisty road....
tntriumph is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2012, 08:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
Powerbike
Main Motorcycle: 2006 Scrambler!
 
bikebits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 358
Other Motorcycle: BMW R1200RT
There are several different configurations for linked brakes. Front and rear with the handlebar lever, front and rear with he pedal, etc.

My BMW R1200RT has what I figure is the perfect setup. The lever applies both front calipers with a proportioning system adding rear brake according to a number of factors including how hard you're braking. The pedal applies only the rear brake, so like any other bike is just right for low speed maneuvers and correcting coming in to a corner.

The front brake lever is so effective the pedal is redundant in 99% of situations.
__________________
Dave (Scrambler Trans-Labrador Blog here)
bikebits is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2012, 12:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colne.Lancashire.UK
Posts: 3,062
Other Motorcycle: 1972 Suzuki Hustler
My LeMans had linked brakes. Best thing since sliced bread. My V11 Sport had conventional brakes, and wasn't half as good. Just using the pedal had become second nature to me, and having to go back to a front lever was a backward step as far as I was concerned. Guzzi should have kept them, and upgraded them with ABS.
M.G.Vig is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2012, 01:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 2004 Thruxton
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 2,670
Other Motorcycle: 1954 BMW R25/3
Extra Motorcycle: 1971 CB350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebits View Post
There are several different configurations for linked brakes. Front and rear with the handlebar lever, front and rear with he pedal, etc.

My BMW R1200RT has what I figure is the perfect setup. The lever applies both front calipers with a proportioning system adding rear brake according to a number of factors including how hard you're braking. The pedal applies only the rear brake, so like any other bike is just right for low speed maneuvers and correcting coming in to a corner.

The front brake lever is so effective the pedal is redundant in 99% of situations.
In doing a little research on the subject, I'm coming to your same conclusion: that linking the rear brake to the front lever & leaving the rear peddle to exclusively actuate the rear brake is more advantageous than a system that links the front brake to the rear pedal.

A braking system overview is summarized here:

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...S-braking4.htm

and the pros/cons of linked brakes are discussed ad-nauseum in this ADVrider thread:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818100

So in my case, I'm thinking that the "drill & forget about it" course of action is the best one. Yeah, I may get lucky by plumbing up the front piston with the rear pedal and then tuning it by putting some sort of proportioning device in the mix, but it sounds like a pretty big can of worms.

A better way to spend efforts in this realm would be to find a multi-pot rear caliper that allows a single pot to be linked to the front brakes system. Or, even better, spend the money on a rider education course to learn how to better apply the brakes we already have...!!!

Cheers,

--Rich
beemerrich is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
Senior Member
Moto Grand Prix
Main Motorcycle: 2004 Thruxton
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 2,670
Other Motorcycle: 1954 BMW R25/3
Extra Motorcycle: 1971 CB350
Being a glutton for punishment coupled with the inability to let something go once its penetrated into the grey matter of my cranium, I looked into how Honda links the brakes on its VFR machine...this bike, as well as the BMWs with integrated brakes, seem to be the most lauded examples of linked brake systems. As it turns out, the Honda links both its brake systems...the front lever operates the outer 2 pots of each 3-pot caliper in front and the center pot of the 3-pot rear caliper. The rear brake pedal operates the outer 2 pots of the rear caliper along with the center pot on each of the front calipers.

While the front to rear interlocking is complicated (though not as much as the BMW system), using a secondary master cylinder on the front-left caliper to acutate the rear brake, the rear to front interlock is nearly direct and only employs a 'delay valve' in the line to make the front brake engagement lag the rear brake. No proportioning valves are used. A nice description of the VFR braking system is found about 1/2 way down in this review:

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...0/viewall.html

Here's the part where I actually talk myself into a potentially stupid idea. The front linking is way complicated on the VFR and isn't anything I'm going to take on...fitting the rear 3 pot caliper alone would be a project in itself. However, the rear to front link is way simple and would probably be doable. A delay valve and brake line or two is all this is needed to plumb it up.

Besides, I figure I'll be getting less forward bias on the brakes than the honda due to the fact that I'm only actuating 1-22.5mm brake pot on the right side caliper in concert with the 2-27mm brake pots on our stock rear caliper. The linked honda system actuates 2-22.5 mm rear pots and 2-22.5 mm pots up front (one on each caliper). Overall, I figure that it will be minimally intrusive in situations where historically I'd only apply rear brake and may be something I like...won't know until I try it.

Anyway, the delay valve is sitting here in my hand and the worst thing that will happen is that I'll not like it and be out ~$100 & some time for the effort.

Cheers,

--Rich
beemerrich is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brakes MrD The Welcome Center 5 06-01-2014 01:30 AM
keep gettin linked here figured id join metalb00 The Welcome Center 5 01-25-2012 03:12 PM
Brakes cardc26 Speed Triple Forum 2 05-01-2010 12:23 PM
Brakes? PiTTdAwG The Rocket Science Forum 3 09-06-2009 10:06 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:30 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.