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Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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TPUSA 865 Installation Cost/Difficulty

Still trying to locate someone on the forum who has had the kit installed or done it themselves. Any idea of cost? Is this something that can be accomplised by a couple of above average mechanics over a weekend? Thanks for any responses!
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Which kit?

Do you mean this one?http://www.triumphperformanceusa.com...roducts_id=393

Also you may want to post this in twins technical - the engine is the same (basically). You'll get a lot more answers.

Tell you what - I'll move it for you.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes - that's the one. Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blissful1 View Post
Still trying to locate someone on the forum who has had the kit installed or done it themselves. Any idea of cost? Is this something that can be accomplised by a couple of above average mechanics over a weekend? Thanks for any responses!
I haven't fitted that particular kit however I have fitted Hi-comp pistons (Wiseco) and cams (Thunderbike) to my bike and the job is essentially the same.

Yes the job could be done in a weekend but there are a couple of potential "gotchas". You will almost certainly need to change some, if not all, of the valve clearance shims and you won't know what sizes you need until you trial fit the new cams. Unless you have weekend access to a range of different shims this may stall the project.

Snapping one of the oil pipe banjo bolts or stripping a cam cover bolt or dropping something into the engine are the other potential project stoppers. Taking care to stuff all openings with shop rags as you work can help avoid the latter but, if it is essential that the job be completed over one weekend, I wouldn't even start the project unless I had spare oil pipe banjo bolts, a suitable Heli-coil kit and a range of valve shims on hand.

Other essentials would be a manual, a suitable tension wrench and some cam gear backlash locking pins. Read the manual and familiarise yourself with the process before you start. Make sure you have all of the required tools (torx bits for example) on hand plus plenty of clean shop rags, cleaning fluids, gasket sealer and anti-seize.

You may also need new copper header gaskets and maybe a cam cover gasket / seals depending on the condition of your originals but all of the other required gaskets seem to be supplied in the kit. If you don't have a centre stand a bike lift would be another essential requirement.

Plan well and proceed carefully and it shouldn't be a problem. Good luck.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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THAT TPUSA kit is the second best bang for your buck.
The BEST bang for your buck is FCR carbs...
IF you have a carbed bike...
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Still trying to locate someone on the forum who has had the kit installed or done it themselves. Any idea of cost? Is this something that can be accomplised by a couple of above average mechanics over a weekend? Thanks for any responses!
Bliss, not to talk you out of doing the kit... because it is a great bang for the buck package... I will give you some things to think about and I recommend that you call Carlos at TPUSA and discuss the job with him...

I did an 865 "big bore" on my 790 by sourcing a set of lightly used (>5k miles) 865 cylinders and a set of Wiseco 10.5 to 1 cr pistons... Because I don't have the tools and an adequate place to do the work, I had my dealer/wrench do it. It wasn't all that much, as they charge by the actual hours worked, give me a good rate and Byron is a crackerjack mechanic and it didn't take him all that long to do the job...

I REALLY like the package but it was not without it's problems getting everything sorted out... long story but the bottom line is it's a bit of a crap shoot... because you never know how the new pistons and rings will seat on used cylinder walls... even "lightly used" walls... Even though the Nikasil coating is VERY hard, it does still develop wear patterns that can affect new ring sealing..

If I were you, I'd discuss your Bonnies mileage and the chances for a successful job with Carlos...

The other thing that I would look at... do the performance boost goals that you have, absolutely require that you break into the top end of the engine?

Not knowing where you are mods wise right now, if you have not done the air box elim./carve, pod filters, ignitor reprogram, performance pipes upgrades yet... do that first and see if that gets you where you want to be...

If you have done the above... and you want to take the next step... even though it would cost you a bit more going this route, I would go for just the TPUSA 813 cams upgrade first... that's just a plug and play swap and leaves the top end alone... see how you like your performance level... if all's good, fine... if not, then you come to the fork in the performance upgrades road... It's either carb upgrades or then breaking into the engine and modifying the top end...

I needed the capacity upgrade to get what I wanted... and if I were to do the job again, I'd go with a cylinder bore and re-Nikasil job on the cylinders (ala the TPUSA 904 kit), what ever the capacity 865 or 904 so that I had fresh mating surfaces, insuring that you have the best chance of the rings sealing and doing the job just once...

That's just my experience and 2 cents worth...

Last edited by SCbonneville; 11-09-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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+1 with SCBonneville. If you've already done the airbox/exhaust and perhaps an ignitor upgrade (another boost in performance), the 865 upgrade would be the next logical step, although CR or FCR carbs will also prove a worthwhile investment. The carb upgrade would certainly make the most of the other mods.

I think the trick is to put new pistons in new-as-possible cylinders: worn cylinder walls do not go well with new rings. Also, if you can swing it, getting the head itself upgraded through TPUSA is a major improvement and it'd be a shame not to have that done while the head is off of the engine.

Bottom line, short of having the cases machined for seriously larger displacement, a 904 (new cylinders to go with new pistons), 813 cams, a flowed head and better carbs is the best recipe for performance (80+ hp) in these engines. I too am following this path, but I want to have the $$, time and all the ingredients in place before tearing into the engine.

I see you are in the Richmond area. Consider sending a PM to Mikeinva and perhaps meet up with him. He's local to you, very knowledgable on these engines and would be an invaluable asset in guiding you in your quest.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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+2 @ easy & SC

Bliss - set your goals for motor development before plopping down your $$s. Defining how much power you want and where you want the power to come in is of paramount importance in working up a plan for motor upgrades.

Let us know your goals and we can possibly help with more focused experiences/recommendations.

Regards,

--Rich
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Send me a pm if you want some help.If you need the bike.The frist thing to do is put the cams in first so you can make sure you have the right valve shims.I have a pretty good number of stock shims if you cant find some in town.then you have to pull the bike down and measure the bores.If everything is good you can do the job in a day or so.How many miles has your bike got on it?
As oters said if it has many miles or the bores are not in good shape you would be better going with a 904 kit.If you want to go the 904 kit I have a few sets of 865 jugs that I could send carlos a set so you wouldnt have to pull your bike apart untill you get the 904 kit from tpusa.be glad to help let me know I will give you my number give me a call .
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Last edited by mikeinva; 11-09-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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+1 with SCBonneville. If you've already done the airbox/exhaust and perhaps an ignitor upgrade (another boost in performance), the 865 upgrade would be the next logical step, although CR or FCR carbs will also prove a worthwhile investment. The carb upgrade would certainly make the most of the other mods.

Hope this helps.
Eric, reading your first sentence, it seems that you are advocating the kit... rather than just the cams upgrade... After I did my upgrade and you installed the 790 cams and you still had the CR's on, I don't think there was enough of a difference in performance between our two set ups to justify ripping into a perfectly fine 865 top end just to insert higher compression pistons... And that is kind of my point... I bumped up the CR because I HAD to open the engine up to gain the capacity and I may as well have done it while it was opened up... Knowing what I know now, I would NOT open up the top end just to install pistons to obtain an extra 1.3 points of compression... That's just my opinion though...

As we have talked about on many occasions, if you are going to go into the top end, the best thing to do is to gather up all the money to do everything you want done, big bore, pistons, port & polishing, wise, all in one whack...

Now, my, yours and Rich's experience is based around the 360 crank engine... Bliss is dealing with a 270 crank engine... I don't feel that I know enough on how "our" mods react on 270 engines or what he is after, performance wise, to say "you HAVE to do this or that. As I and Rich have pointed out... Bliss needs to sit down and decide what he wants to build/achieve, engine mods wise... How he uses his bike.. How and where he wants his power to be delivered... Since I was after a boost in low and mid range torque, it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to get the heads ported and polished and install larger valves... I will not net enough difference in power in my target rpm/power range where I want to make my most gains, to justify the expense... For me, just cleaning up the casting marks was enough...

Without knowing Bliss's starting point, we'll have to wait until he chimes in... If he's running basically a stock set up, I think he'll be amazed at what he can gain without breaking into the top end... And It's my belief, that until you go through those mods first, which you want done anyway, to compliment and optimize any internal engine mods, you should do them first, assess where you are, performance wise and then plan your next step, before ever thinking about breaking into the top end...The carve/pods/re-jet/pipes/ignitor upgrade should always the first step... for 865 engines, obviously the cams are next... Then? Well, what are you after?

Last edited by SCbonneville; 11-09-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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