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Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

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Old 11-02-2012, 04:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It means your exhaust valve get a fraction more seat time to transfer heat to the seat.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelhorse View Post
It means your exhaust valve get a fraction more seat time to transfer heat to the seat.
Larger gaps = more seat time.
Smaller gaps = more open time.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hello
Really great (and thought provoking) replies. After having said I would re shim all the valves to min spec I changed my mind. I figured inlets were still in spec so leave them. So I have been to dealers and purchased four shims to bring exhausts to 0.3 or just under. Shims were $34 list price, was charged $30, $7.50 each! Anyway I will put it back together and worry about it all again in 10000km. I dont mind fiddling with this bike, it is so easy to work on.
BTW I had an interesting chat with the mechanic at the dealers. He opined that in carefully ridden bike valve clearances open up over time whilst in an enthusiastically ridden bike the clearances close up over time. This has just been his experience. I have yet to come up with a theory to exlain this, if it is true. In my case either the exhausts were set a little loose at the factory or they have opened up. Just a comment re the view that 0.03 loose is only a thousandth of an inch it is nevertheless 10% out of spec. I have never owned a motorcycle that I have wanted to discuss in such intricate detail. Some motorcycles are just a black box.........rider privides inputs, bike provides outputs. A Bonneville is different, it is one of a select group of machines with which (whom?) the rider has an intimate relationship. A Bonneville rider provides inputs and the bike provides feedback as well as an output, the rider is aware of what is going on, is intimately involved with the soul of the machine. A Bonneville must have something about it to cause me to pen such lyrical stuff!

Last edited by Tasmaniablue; 11-02-2012 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Anybody who says a Bonneville isn't "soulful" is very mistaken! The Meister
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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"A Bonneville is different". Never has such a true comment been made. You could also add that the people that own and ride them are the same. Great thread by the way
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Hello and thank you Styx
I am going to continue with some further thoughts that have arisen as I put the bike back together. I installed the cams, no problem. My home made cam backlash gear locking tools worked a treat. Next I fitted the oil pipe and torqued up the banjo bolts. Then disaster.......the second banjo bolt just sheared off before the torque wrench clicked.......sigh. I got the broken thread out with an easy out and got to thinking. Why did the bolt shear off. I checked the torque wrench and found that I had set it at 9nm, not 8nm as it should have been. So my bad. Then I got to thinking some more.........you mean these bolts will fail at only 1nm over spec, or less since it sheared off before 9nm was reached. This seems to be a ridiculously slim saftey margin (12 %). So I got to thinking some more. These bolts are 6mm diameter with a 3mm hole this leaves a 1.5 wall thicknes. The theads are 6mmx1mm pitch with a depth of thread of 0.866025mm. Lets round that to 0.87mm. This means that the wall thickness where the failure occured is 1.5 minus 0.87 which is 0.63mm, (about 0.025inch or 25 thou in old school measurements, I am an old geezer!) I am not surprised they are easy to shear! I am surprised that more failures are not reported. In addition I got to thinking that these bolts must be made of some high tensile steel to stand the 8nm spec. Nope. They look like plain ordinary mild steel, nothing special here. In my opinion (just seat of the pants engineering) Triumph should have considered either a more substantial bolt, say 8mm, or a better specced material. I do not want to order new bolts (I think the intact bolt will have been compromised by over tourqueing) and admitting that I messed up. So what to do? I got to thinking (as I am wont to do) and think I have a solution. I am off to the workshop now but will post again later tonight. Not only that but I am going to attempt to post some pictures.............stand by.

Last edited by Tasmaniablue; 11-04-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You can do it like this..remove in one piece:
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hello
This will be a post with pictures, I hope, involving cryptic cap markings, prickly characters (in a continuation post) and an engineering solution.
As you know I have re shimmed my valves but have broken a banjo bolt. Here is a picture of my home made backlash gear locating tool.

Next a picture of markings on one of the cam bearing caps.Anyone know what they mean?[IMG][/IMG]
Now to the good bit. I thought about what to do about the broken banjo bolt. Options are buy a new bolt with its design shortcomings, re engineer the head to take a larger bolt (say 8mm) or make a new bolt using a higher specification material. The last option was realistic for me as I have a small lathe and drill/milling machine. I hunted around for some material and found two stainless steel 8mm cap screws, probably grade 304. Picture of my starting point here.
[IMG][/IMG]
I did a bit of research and found that mild steel has a yield stength of 250MPa as opposed to 304 stainless at 450MPa. So I know I am going to end up with a stronger item. So this is how I did it.
[IMG][/IMG]
That picture shows how little mateial there is to resist the fastening torque. In theory my planned item should be nearly twice as stong. On to the machining pocess.
[IMG][/IMG]
Here I have turned the head of the bolt down to 12mm diameter which just under the diameter of the copper sealing washer. I noted that the sealing washer is 12.4mm od and 6.4mm id, suspiciously close to a half inch/quarter inch item. I am also happy to use a cap head as opposed to a hex head which tends to chew up the washer a bit. The round cap head should be easier on the washer. I reduced the depth of the female hex in the head from 5mm to 4mm and turned 1mm of material from the back of the head to reduce the height of the head. It is still 2mm thicker than the Triumph part but I checked for suffcient clearance under the cam cover, it has about 6mm. I note that Triumph have cast in clearance in the cam cover for the banjo bolt heads but question if this was necessary.
In the picture I am facing the bolt to length, 20mm. Thats enough for now, I seem to have lost some pictures. A continuation of this post will follow shortly.

Last edited by Tasmaniablue; 11-04-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Continuation

Hello
I mentioned prickly characters in my previous post. Here is one of them that i noticed through the workshop window. It was near my beehive full of more prickly characters.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
It is an Echidna, an egg laying mammal (monotreme). We have some weird stuff in Aus, but cute. Here is another prickly character at work.

Lets get back to the serious stuff.

New banjo bolt turned to just over 6mm (finishing cut taken later), drilling oil hole 3mm. Next picture shows 6mm thread being cut, 10.5mm long

Nearly done.

Now the 2,5mm cross drilling.

Pictures of the finished items.


I am going to get some new copper washers and an o ring before I install and I am waiting for my new coil.
Well there you have it........the banjo bolts Triumph should have made!
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Great work, thanks for that.
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