Ignition problem......Yes more of the same! - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-31-2012, 01:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Grand Prix 500
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 131
Other Motorcycle: Honda Postie
Extra Motorcycle: Suzuki DL650 V Strom
Ignition problem......Yes more of the same!

Hello
I have made a couple of posts on Forchetto's pick up thread but think my issue deserves a thread of its own. I have just returned from a trip to the big island to the north ((of Tasmania). I have an 06 Bonneville......pods, pipes, 145 mains, 40 pilots 2.75 turns out......goes well. So the symptoms appear. Engine just dies, no warning. Wait 5 minutes, bike fires up and goes fine for 100km. Same thing happens at varying intervals on the trip. But at lower ambient temperatures say under 20deg c no problem. Clue; temperature related problem. I went right through fuel system, no problem (which I kind of knew but wanted to eliminate fuel as a problem). Next suspect was pick up coil. Adjusted the gap (it was 1.2mm), checked resistance.......605ohm cold, 750ohm hot. Put a new one in anyway. Next day was 30deg c, hottest day of the trip. Rode 10km and she stops. I have to wait 30mins before she starts again. I ride 5km (to the ferry) and wait over 2hrs by which time bike has cooled down, but it is still 30deg. Bike starts up and I ride 300metres to the ferry check in. Then fire up again and she stops after 50metres. Will not start again even after a further 90 min wait. I have to push the bike aboard the ferry (how close was that!). Next morning early the bike starts and I ride 45km to home with no incident, it is quite cool. Today I tore into the bike, next suspect is the coil. It tests ok on the high tension side but reads 2.5 ohms on the low tension side....should be 0.5ohm. Over the next few hours I re checked this reading and got between 0.3 and 1.5 ohm, quite a range. I wonder if something is going on inside the coil? (eg dry joint) I decide to try a reading at a higher temperature .........immerse coil in water at approx 40deg, Reads ok, go figure!
So what is suggested? Change coil? Note Tasmania is cooler than the mainland so problem may not appear. Purchase igniter and keep it as a spare, just in case? I note OEM coil is over $200AUD and igniter is close to $1000! I can get after market items (Nology and Pro Com I think) for around $500 total.......still painful!
I would be interested to hear your comments, btw can coils be tested "under load"?

Last edited by Tasmaniablue; 10-31-2012 at 01:47 AM.
Tasmaniablue is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-31-2012, 02:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
Legend
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Bonneville SE
 
Forchetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Asturias, Spain
Posts: 13,836
Other Motorcycle: Yamaha XV1100
Extra Motorcycle: Qingqi QM200GY-BA
If you need an aftermarket coil don't go for branded ones like Nology, etc. Those coils are made in Germany by PVL with the part number 356 1 00 They're used on some BMW bikes and others. Just do a search for other sellers like these on ebay:

This one is just 80USD:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PVL-Coil-356...-/290617875551

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PVL-igni..._Parts&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PVL-Dual-Dig...-/170474109164
Forchetto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 02:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
Grand Prix 500
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 131
Other Motorcycle: Honda Postie
Extra Motorcycle: Suzuki DL650 V Strom
Hello
Forchetto you are a gentleman! Thank you for that information. I have placed an order for a coil (from New Zealand.......$110AUD including shipping, half the price of OEM item). BTW what are your thoughts re the likelyhood that the coil is the problem considering the symptoms? I have felt that the throttle response is a little off and the bike seems to have a little more low frequency vibration than before, but this is very subjective I know. If I have to purchase an igniter ((lets hope not) have you any suggestions re source? Thank you once again for your help.......kind regards.
Tasmaniablue is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 08:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
Legend
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Bonneville SE
 
Forchetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Asturias, Spain
Posts: 13,836
Other Motorcycle: Yamaha XV1100
Extra Motorcycle: Qingqi QM200GY-BA
The symptoms seem to point to temperature failures and coils often go that way. Let us know if it works.

If it did turn out to be the igniter Triumph Twin Power in the UK often have used but tested and serviceable igniters in stock at a much lower cost than a new one. Mike (aka "pieman") is your contact there or through a private message here, he's an active member of this forum.

http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/

Last edited by Forchetto; 10-31-2012 at 08:20 AM.
Forchetto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 08:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: '06 T100
 
Bron-Yr-Aur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Windber, PA (formerly Jax FL)
Posts: 1,668
Other Motorcycle: Kawasaki KXdirtshredder
There's also a lot of good press from members here on the forum (including myself) who love their Procom programmable igniter. I got mine new in package from fleabay for $230US+shipping. Worth the money, especially considering the OEM alternative. IMO it would be worth it even if you didn't need an igniter. Having that type of tuning capability usually comes at a much higher price.
__________________
(The artist formerly known as kreemsicleT100)

"Ya can't have 'no' in your heart. Life's a garden. Dig it." - Joe Dirt
"If y'ain't first, yer last." - Ricky Bobby
Bron-Yr-Aur Garage
Bron-Yr-Aur is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: augusta ks.
Posts: 744
my 06 did the same thing, hard strting followed by quitting on the road. followed by wouldnt start at all. I ordered a new coil, no help, checked the pickup coil, adjusted the pickup coil, and finally put on a procom igniter. no problems now. the only damage visible on the ignitor was a shiney spot where the seat had rubbed on the case. I also modified the seat pan with a heat gun for more clearance.
several months and no problems at all, easy starting, and better preformance.
cliff
__________________
2006 Bonnie Black
1980 Yamaha xs650 sold 4-30-2011
alfacliff is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 10:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: '06 T100
 
Bron-Yr-Aur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Windber, PA (formerly Jax FL)
Posts: 1,668
Other Motorcycle: Kawasaki KXdirtshredder
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfacliff View Post
my 06 did the same thing, hard strting followed by quitting on the road. followed by wouldnt start at all. I ordered a new coil, no help, checked the pickup coil, adjusted the pickup coil, and finally put on a procom igniter. no problems now. the only damage visible on the ignitor was a shiney spot where the seat had rubbed on the case. I also modified the seat pan with a heat gun for more clearance.
several months and no problems at all, easy starting, and better preformance.
cliff
My experience almost identically, except the rubbing part. Just for good measure, I stacked 2 washers under each bumper on my seat, as the Procom looks a little bigger installed on the bike. I honestly can't even make a guess on the OP's problem, but it does sound eerily similar to mine and yours. I thought mine was heat related until it died on me and wouldn't start again.
__________________
(The artist formerly known as kreemsicleT100)

"Ya can't have 'no' in your heart. Life's a garden. Dig it." - Joe Dirt
"If y'ain't first, yer last." - Ricky Bobby
Bron-Yr-Aur Garage
Bron-Yr-Aur is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 10:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
Grand Prix 500
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 131
Other Motorcycle: Honda Postie
Extra Motorcycle: Suzuki DL650 V Strom
Hello
Thank you all for those very useful and informative replies. As previously posted I have ordered a new coil. I can source a new Procom igniter in Australia for $299AUD plus $20AUD shipping. Out of interest I will look into motorcycle wreckers as a source for a used one. I will also keep my eye on e bay. I will try the new coil first and move on to the igniter if required, The igniter seems to be treated as a black box but since it has inputs and outputs I would have thought that testing should be possible if the designed inputs and outputs are known. I wonder how the units are tested during manufacture to maintain quality control. In my case the symptons seem to indicate failure (albeit temporarily) due to internal heat build up. Intermittent faults are so frustrating..........to reproduce my symptoms appears to depend on ambient temperature and in Tasmania it rarely exceeds 30deg c which seems to be the temperature at which failure occurs within say a half an hour of riding. My problem could have been dormant for quite some time.I will probably spring for a new igniter eventually but I would really like to know what is failing (and why). As an aside and to illustrate how deep my knowledge of electrickery is, I was always under the impression the electrics work on smoke and when the smoke escapes things stop working! For intermittent faults the escaping smoke must be invisible........a bit like dark matter.
PS No rubbing on the igniter from the seat pan........I am 72kg and always ride solo.

Last edited by Tasmaniablue; 10-31-2012 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Add info
Tasmaniablue is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 10:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
Grand Prix 500
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 131
Other Motorcycle: Honda Postie
Extra Motorcycle: Suzuki DL650 V Strom
Hello.....again
Just to add a little more info. I have had a couple of stoppages at lower ambient temperatures (say 12deg or so) but the bike restarted almost immediately. Also the problem has seemed to be getting worse so I think the coil or the igniter ( I wish I knew which) is heading for complete failure. Are the after market items more durable? I have not seen any reports of failures.
Tasmaniablue is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2012, 05:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
SOTP Vintage Series
Main Motorcycle: 2006 Blue Thruxton
 
steventhechef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 6,913
Other Motorcycle: 06 Thruxton - wife's bike
2 Thruxtons and 2 replaced igniters (Procom) and 2 different problems.

1) My Thruxton would start fine and then ride well, then it would die unexpectedly and not be able to restart it. 10 minutes later it would vroom into life with no issues for the next 100 kms.

I jiggled the igniter and it would stutter and fluff about. I bought an igniter from Procom and the problem is fixed.

2) My wife's Thruxton's tacho would work intermittently. Jumping around, stopping, starting. Very annoying.

I bought another igniter from Procom and the problem is fixed.

Hmmm! a pattern here!! I found out by running the bike with the seat off and I pushed my thumb down on the casing of the igniter. With my bike it would stutter and skip with the pressure on so I assuming that it is when there is a little weight on it or it is bouncing around that it cuts out.

Just my words of wisdom.
__________________
steventhechef

Eggs & Bacon. A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.

Last edited by steventhechef; 10-31-2012 at 05:03 PM.
steventhechef is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ignition problem miketango The Rocket Science Forum 5 06-08-2011 12:12 PM
59 5TA Ignition Problem snatchpiece Classic, Vintage & Veteran 7 03-22-2010 12:04 PM
ignition problem Paul C. Twins Technical Talk 3 09-27-2008 06:34 PM
Ignition Problem? webonnielad Twins Technical Talk 1 08-25-2007 07:50 AM
Ignition Problem JSimpson Maintenance & Workshop Talk 8 03-17-2004 12:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 AM.



Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0