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Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

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Old 11-19-2012, 12:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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For those that care to see just what is bypassed if you send a part off to china for manufacture with your name on it...

This is Arrows website... click on a few of the tabs and see what goes into developing an exhaust system... See just what TEC does NOT have to do when they rip off the Arrow exhaust designs...

Click here: http://www.arrow.it/usa/storia/

Not only do they bypass the R&D... they also bypass the Italian manufacturing facility and the traditional distribution chain... it is no surprise that they sell them for less... for the poster that opined about the "inflated" western prices... look at the costs involved with actually DEVELOPING and BUILDING a product... especially an exhaust system...

Hey look, I'm semi retired/unemployed...every dollar is precious to me... I'll admit, I've been tempted many times by the TEC products and other non-motorcycle related items produced using that business model... I choose to resist it as best I can... I just don't think it's a "kosher" way of doing business... That's just me...

Last edited by SCbonneville; 11-19-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter Paul View Post
"...Do you really know where the parts are made that you are paying inflated 'western' prices for?
My original reply was solely intended to feedback that the TEC stand I bought was well made and good value."

Paul
Paul, if you don't work in the manufacturing industry it is easy to come to the conclusion that products that are produced in the US are overly expensive compared to something that is produced in a low-wage area. But the truth is they're not.

There is a world of difference between a product that was designed meet an engineering standard and one that was simply copied and then manufactured.

Think about the statements made above by a few folks and then see how it fits into your own value system. If it makes you think twice about what you buy, then good for you. And if not, then there's not much more to say.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[quote=Scooter Paul;2428988]
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Originally Posted by 72 Pantera View Post
SC Bonneville is spot on.

I will not be one to support this business model. And will always try to purchase products from anywhere but the cheap crap from China.

Do you really know where the parts are made that you are paying inflated 'western' prices for?
My original reply was solely intended to feedback that the TEC stand I bought was well made and good value.

Paul
I can not speak for the UK, but here most products do state the country where they are produced.

Although very difficult and more so with every passing day I do try to purchase products in the US followed by western countries.

I am a very frugal and do shop for value. That being said I will and do pay more for US produced products. I believe the money I spend on these products does help in some small way to promote and keep jobs here.

Beyond the financial component Chinese products are just crap. Poor design (unless stolen from others as exampled here). Inferior components (unless assembling components produced by others such as Apple). And questionable at best quality control.I for one would not trust the metallurgical content of the TEC center stand produced from Chinese steel.

However I do realize that I am in the minority as more people could care less where a product is produced as long as they can save money.

But if your all is good !
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Do we have any idea at all where the Triumph centre stand is produced?
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Do we have any idea at all where the Triumph centre stand is produced?
Oh I'd bet on china or somewhere in Asia... most simple, mass produced items are produced where the labor/manufacture rate is low or lowest... and you really can't argue that. That's just the reality of mass production in this "global economy"...

I would hope that Triumph and other manufacturers would use a reputable manufacturer with some sort of material spec/quality control...

I'm not saying that TEC offers "bad" products... likely just the opposite... you just don't know though and I don't know what the recourse would be if you did have a problem with an item. I imagine TEC would try to make it right...

Now, I hope you took a few minutes to look at what Arrow has invested in their company and what they go through to develop an exhaust system... That is a LOT of engineering and testing... a LOT of man hours and money are spent developing their products... same as other exhaust manufacturers... I'm sure that Arrow is none too happy to see chinese knock offs of their exhaust hawked on ebay for 1/3 the price...

My point is purely on the ethics of the business model employed by TEC and other companies that do the same... And there are plenty of chinese companies more than willing to supply those businesses... I had a friend that was importing golf club components, assembling sets of dimensionally direct knock offs of name brands (those names were not on the club heads)... and he got calls everyday from manufacturers over there, willing to do whatever he wanted, from a price point and design standpoint...

Last edited by SCbonneville; 11-19-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Exclamation

[quote=SCbonneville;2429031]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter Paul View Post

I don't know how "inflated" the "western" prices are... you have to cover development and design costs, the cost of actually having a 'brick & mortar" facility, in many cases including manufacturing facilities and your inventory and distribution costs...

If I take someone elses design, I eliminate that cost... if I market through ebay, I eliminate the overhead of having an actually business location and if I source through the cheapest chinese manufacturer, then I have no control over the quality control or materials used in the parts manufacture...

Is it a workable business model... yeah... happens everyday... is it "kosher"?... that's for you to decide and if you decides it is, so be it... If your motive is to get the absolute cheapest price... go for it...

But if you believe in supporting businesses that actually move things forward rather than ripping off designs and undercutting on price... pay a few more bucks and support those who support you by actually designing, developing and promoting new products...

Bottom line is though... don't criticize anyone that chooses to support the company that actually designs, in some cases actually manufactures, markets and has customer service accountability via traditional marketing/sales outlets....
Like Scooter Paul, I, too, feel the pain of the inflated price tags on many things that we all use and deem important. (Music comes to mind) Also, when I compare car parts (which, I would be willing to bet, would have at least equal R&D) to the prices for parts for my Bonnie, yes I get very frustrated. Cams, heads, stroker kits, for classic V8's are all a fraction of our bikes' equivalents.

That being said, I still can't argue against a single point SC made. All are very valid and very ethical. In reality, all those parts I mentioned aren't really necessary. They aren't something that the manufacturer withheld from us in some sort of greedy pursuit of more money. They are unnecessary additions to otherwise complete and very satisfying bikes. So as hard as it is to part with my money, nobody's forcing me to spend it but me and my adrenaline. I, like SC, really have no desire to purchase products which are obvious rip-offs. But that's just me.

So I resort to the classifieds, waiting for the good stuff to come up. Then I've satisfied both my adrenaline jones and my wallet (and my conscience).
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Last edited by Bron-Yr-Aur; 11-20-2012 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The idea of a portable centre stand makes a ton of sense for those not wanting to drag around a centre stand where ever you go. However, for that price, could you purchase a motorcycle lift that gets the entire bike off the ground for removing the forks etc? Certainly a portable centre stand is good for oil changes, oiling the chain, removing the rear tyre.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I have a portable centre stand. It's attached to the underside of my bike. :P
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #19 (permalink)
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[quote=kreemsicleT100;2429719]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCbonneville View Post

Also, when I compare car parts (which, I would be willing to bet, would have at least equal R&D) to the prices for parts for my Bonnie, yes I get very frustrated. Cams, heads, stroker kits, for classic V8's are all a fraction of our bikes' equivalents.
Purely down to scale of economy... The more customers for a part, the greater the impact on lowering the cost per unit...

A good car analogy would be hot rod parts for Chevy small blocks being so much less expensive because the sheer numbers of them made and most parts fit across the whole line of engines, 283 to small block 400 ci...

Ford and Dodge small blocks varied... heck, even within the Ford 351 engine, there were major differences between the Cleveland and Windsor engines...

Yeah, there's been a good number of "Bonnies" made... ~125,000... those numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to, for an example, all the harley 883/1200/large engines produced... and within those numbers you have a divide between 360 & 270 cranks...

Last edited by SCbonneville; 11-20-2012 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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i started this Ouch! SC bonnie good points I did not know the TEC was Chinese. Read some were it was a Brit company I will stay away from it Why? I bought a hyd lift from Canadian tire few years ago, at the time I had a Road King.....grew up since then LOL Walked into garage one day, bike was lying on floor, hardware [Bolts Etc] had let go. Made in China. On the other side of fence Triumph,use cheap labour [Thailand] to build bikes. Nuff said.
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