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Twins Technical Talk Technical Talk for Hinckley Triumph Twins: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.

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Old 11-09-2012, 11:14 AM   #171 (permalink)
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I have some interesting input.

So earlier this year I got some Rosso IIs. Use them for few months then got a COMPLETE blow out on the rear (no fault of the tire, ran over some sharp stuff) so had to get new tires. I wanted another set of Rosso IIs as they were hands down the best tire I have EVER ridden. They were very neutral. Like they don't make the bike do anything you don't want it to do. I could ride at 70mph no handed or 7mph. Also the tires made your ride very soft and supple letting me not feel any bumps or vibrations. Obviously a SUPER STICKY tire. I was able to hit all my usual corners going 10-15mph faster. Just overall "THE BEST" doesn't describe these tires adequately.

Anyway couldn't find any Rosso IIs in the rear size (probrally cause they are so good) and had to order a front and rear set of sport demons. Put about 2000 miles on them. These tires are bias play compared to the rossos radial so these share some similar handling aspects to the stock metzler tires in that they are not as neutral. It is most difficult to ride no handed and very dangerous to do so at low speeds. Tipping into turns it does not, it wants to fall into them very different feeling but not bad. Just different. Grip is the same as the Rosso IIs, very very grippy never lost traction or felt like they were going to skip. The most noticeable thing for me is riding was not as supple as the Rosso. Not as comfortable and most hit every bump and cringe a bit. Maybe these are just a stiffer rubber?

Both are great looking, the sport demons compliment my mag wheel bonneville very well. The tire mounter guy when I gave him the Rossos thought they were slicks which I laughed. OH and I should add both of these tires are AWESOME in the rain. I don't even slow down cautiously when it gets wet I just ride my usual pace at like 70-80mph highway. I ride my bike hard as hell and demand a lot from parts.

(got an opportunity to ride sport demons in the mud due to hurricane sandy, they were surprisingly good. I was slippery yes but in 1-2 inches of mud these tires are fine haha)

Last edited by davengo; 11-09-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:22 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Great feedback! It sounds like I will definitely be going the Rosso II route at the next tire swap. What sizes did you go with the Rosso on front and rear?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Should i go 140/70 or 150/60 in the Rosso II? NVM i just realized the width difference is around 5mm, not enough to make a huge difference in look, i went with the 120/70 front and 140/70 rear.
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Last edited by Rubicon; 11-15-2012 at 09:50 PM. Reason: 5mm
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:19 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
Should i go 140/70 or 150/60 in the Rosso II? NVM i just realized the width difference is around 5mm, not enough to make a huge difference in look, i went with the 120/70 front and 140/70 rear.
No, that's a 10mm difference in width. Your 140/70 is 10mm narrower than the 150/60, BUT it is still 8mm taller on the side, which is very nearly 1/3 inch. That equates to a 2/3 inch difference in total tire height. A noticeable amount indeed.

And since I'm on this topic, I need to correct some very bad information given earlier in this thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewDudeBob View Post
- If possible, try and match your front tire to stock specs. Changing the geometry on the front tire has a bigger impact on handling, usually negative.

- look at the numbers. A stock Bonnie wants 130/80. The Rosso II's are 140/70. If you add the width and aspect ratio numbers, they come out to the same circumference, in this case 210 for both. So the geometry will change, but on a rear tire it will not be that noticeable.
First, this information is very misleading to other readers, which is why I'm surprised no one corrected it in the 5 months it's been up here.

You do NOT add the width and aspect ratio to get circumference. There is no form of math in which this is a correct procedure. You're saying that the circumference of your tire is 8.19 inches.. or smaller than the circumference of a soda can. THAT is one tiny tire!! That calculation ALSO would not work to get your side height, which is what you were trying to talk about (and is not the same thing as circumference).

A 130/80 tire has a side height of 104mm.
A 140/70 tire has a side height of 98mm.

that's a 6mm difference, which is basically 1/4 inch.

Now, that 6mm of extra height is all the way around your tire.. meaning the entire tire measured from ground to top edge of the tire actually stands 12mm taller, which is nearly 1/2 inch.
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Changing the front tire size is not an issue, as long as you don't go crazy with the front while leaving the rear alone (or even worse, going the opposite direction in the rear). I've changed tire sizes on every motorcycle I've owned, without ever having an adverse effect.
_______

Nimma wrote in post 93 that he went from a 110/70 to a 110/80 front, AND from a 130/80 to a 140/70 rear.

If you went from a 110/70 to a 110/80 front, you gained an extra 11mm in side height, or 22mm in total tire height (almost an inch) in the front. AND you went from a 130/80 to a 140/70 in the rear, so you LOST 6mm in side height, or 12mm in total tire height in the rear! That's a nearly 1/2 inch shorter tire.

So you went up almost an inch in height in the front, and down nearly 1/2 an inch in the rear. Now, because your fulcrums are your axles, the numbers affecting your rake angle are only 1/4" down in the rear, 1/2" up in the front, but you still increased your rake angle. If someone is looking for a noticeably more stable ride, with some reduced handling and turn-in, that will work fine. If you want equal or better handling and turn-in, that's the wrong direction to go! You need to increase your rear tire side height similar to your front increase to keep similar handling and turn-in. Now, this is without going into all the other variables, such as how much springier a bigger tire will be, etc. These other variables will have other effects on your handling and ride quality.
______

This post is not meant to rag on anyone, or make anyone feel stupid, so please don't take it that way. It's just to better educate everyone on here, so you can make properly-informed decisions.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:02 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Hatta, thanks for the helpful information. So would I be ok going with a 140/70 on the back and a 120/70 on the front, or should I stick with the 110/70 up front?


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Old 11-17-2012, 09:08 AM   #176 (permalink)
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I would certainly be fine going with a 120/70. That's an extra 7mm in side height up front (14mm total), but you'll be going down in size in the back by 6mm side height (12 mm total). You'll probably notice the slight increase in rake angle. The bike will have slightly slower turn-in. This effect will initially be hidden by the fact that you'll be going from a worn out, flatter-profile tire to a new, rounder-profile tire, so you probably won't notice it unless you ride yours and someone else's with a lower rake angle side by side. Your rear tire will also look smaller from the side. If you want to maintain the same handling characteristics (or even make them sharper) and make your rear tire look meatier, you might want to check out a 140/80 rear.

I'll be buying a wrecked efi bonneville this winter, and building it into a sort of, half cafe, half 'shipyard hooligan' style (as I call it). If I end up buying one with mag wheels (and if I don't replace them with something else), I'll probably use a 140/80 rear (or possibly a 130/90), 120/80 front. BUT, I REALLY want to use the bridgestone spitfire white letter tires, so I'm looking for a 16" rear wheel and 18" front wheel.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:59 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Hatta View Post
And since I'm on this topic, I need to correct some very bad information given earlier in this thread...

First, this information is very misleading to other readers, which is why I'm surprised no one corrected it in the 5 months it's been up here.

This post is not meant to rag on anyone, or make anyone feel stupid, so please don't take it that way. It's just to better educate everyone on here, so you can make properly-informed decisions.
Thanks for correcting my ignorance. I was only going off information I had heard from someone I thought to be a reliable source. I do not feel ragged on at all. If I could, I would go back and remove the bad information in case anyone reads it and continues with my misconception.

And as far as my review of the Diablo Rosso II's, I think they are a fine tire. I have 1800 miles on them and they served me fine last weekend up on the Cherohala Skyway. They have good stick in the curves and I am quite confident on them.

I do not get any speed wobble on the front tire, but I have noticed a slight frame shimmy at high speeds on straightaways. Not sure if that is the tires or perhaps my shocks? I have 40,000+ miles on the stock shocks...

As of now, I do not see a dramatic difference between the Rosso's and the Sport Demons....Longevity is my main concern. But I am a fairly aggressive rider, so unless I start riding less aggressive, I just may be doomed to eat up tires regardless of their purported longevity.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:51 AM   #178 (permalink)
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I have a set of diablo rosso (the first variety) on my sv650 (I haven't ridden this bike in a LONG time, which is why I'm selling it) and I loved them, except for in winter conditions. They were very slippery until they warmed up. I ride year-round here on the coast of NC, and the winters aren't that cold, but I did have a few times where the rear broke loose unexpectedly while cold. Other than that, they were great tires, and in the summer they were sweet in wet or dry.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:38 PM   #179 (permalink)
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Hatta, I checked and can't find a 140/80 in the Diablo Rosso II. Rather than change characteristics too much, I think I'll go with the 140/17 rear and stick with the stock 110/70 front. That rear is 1/2 inch smaller diameter, but that means only 1/4 inch lower height, right? And because I went with the Thruxton length shocks, which are 1/2 inch taller than the stock bonnie shocks, I am still a little taller in the back than stock. What do you think?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:00 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Ah, I didn't know you were strictly looking at the rosso II. There are plenty of other great tires in that size, that's why I gave the recommendation to check. If you are set on rosso II, you'll be fine with your selected tire sizes. Changing that little will be virtually unnoticeable.
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