Triumphrat

PhantomFaser · 07-11-2009, 11:23 AM

Sorry this topic is so tired. So, long story short. I got leaky cam covers. After much research, conversation with the dealer and help from old posts; the fix was to use two "time serts" at the locals that did not torque to spec (14Nm) and replace the bolts, gasket and cam cover. All warranty. My question is: What is the difference between a time sert and a heli-coil. Are both equally good fixes? It just got the bike back yesterday so we'll see after a few miles. This was all warranty work and the dealer has been excellent. Though Triumph declined the warranty, the dealer still took care of it. Thanks in advance. This forum is priceless.

Normandy · 07-11-2009, 12:04 PM

Heli-coil is a brand name for the same process as timeserts.

Thruxton-Texas · 07-11-2009, 01:12 PM

The fasteners that hold down the cam cover are shoulder bolts; they are only supposed to be SNUGGED (low torque values) until the shoulder touches. The rubber sealing washers underneath are compressed; this is what holds the cover down tight to effect a good seal. This is why NEW cover bolt sealing washers are used each time the cam cover is removed; they lose their compressibility over time. In short, cranking down on the cam cover bolts will not correct a leak; it will only strip the threads.

The bad news is that these screws are threaded into the top of camshaft caps. These are not available separately, they are bolted in at the factory and align bored to the proper journal size. They are in effect married to the head for the life of the assembly. If you totally trash one, you have to buy a new head.

The good news is that others have had good success with thread inserts (whatever the brand) after stripping the threads; your caps have not been trashed beyond repair.

If you haven't fiddled with the bolts yourself and the bike is still under warranty; Triumph or your dealer owes you a new head. The dealer's mechanic may have done the damage himself and is trying to weasel out of it. Thread repairs are acceptable if the bike is out of warranty and you stripped the threads yourself........James.

PhantomFaser · 07-11-2009, 06:40 PM

Thanks for the info. Yeah, like I said. This is a long story made short. This could be the beginning of extracting a new head out of the dealer. I think Triumph declined because of the maintenance history on the cam leak and probably expects the dealer to absorb it. I already spoke with the dealer today because it's still is a bit wet around the gasket. I use this as a daily driver and do periodic long trips so I want it resolved. The dealer has been pretty good to deal with thus far and I said that if a new head is in order it should be done. They seemed receptive. Thanks again for the tech info. I'm optimistic though. Plus, it's a Triumph, I expected it to leak. I have installed the BC performance upgrade myself, but never touched the cam covers.

road dog · 07-11-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomFaser

Sorry this topic is so tired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomFaser

...but never touched the cam covers.

No need to apologize, it's obviously not your fault. Just to let you know, my dealer fixed the same problem for me 3 times. The 4th time I suggested that they should replace the cam cover as maybe it was part of the problem. I'm not certain it was, but it's keeping a seal much better since. I know that's not as serious as replacing the entire head, and I hope they will give you a new one. All my repairs were backed by Triumph and my dealer was great about the whole ordeal. My point is that you paid for a warranty when you bought a new bike and they should make it right. Others were telling me that I should just use gasket sealer, and fix it right myself. If I had taken their advice, I would still have the old cam cover which quite possibly was defective.

PhantomFaser · 07-12-2009, 11:00 AM

Thanks for the help. We shall see. It's nice today so wet aroud the cam gasket or not, I'm gonna put some miles on her. I'll talk with the dealer again on Tuesday. Thanks again.

Baltobonneville · 07-12-2009, 11:19 AM

It seems to me that if the Timeserts fix the stripped thread problem, it's excessive and pointless to ask for a new head. That isn't going to do anything for the cam cover leak, as it would be just as likely to leak. And will it be installed by the same mechanic who stripped out the threads on the easy repair?

Additionally, the Timeserts should provide a better-than-new fix for the threads in the cam caps. Fix the leak and leave well enough alone.

PhantomFaser · 07-12-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltobonneville

It seems to me that if the Timeserts fix the stripped thread problem, it's excessive and pointless to ask for a new head. That isn't going to do anything for the cam cover leak, as it would be just as likely to leak. And will it be installed by the same mechanic who stripped out the threads on the easy repair?

Additionally, the Timeserts should provide a better-than-new fix for the threads in the cam caps. Fix the leak and leave well enough alone.

Yes, I agree. If the Timeserts seal the leak I am happy. If I can ride, get to work and go on weekend trips with her I'm happy. We'll see what it looks like today. I brought the bike in about eight days before my warranty was up so if a head is in order I want to do it now. Frankly, I can live with I little bit of oil around the gasket. I rely on this bike for transportation so my consern is that it will get worse. Would you have done Timeserts on all four bolts rather than just the two that did not torque to spec? One bolt torqued to 13Nm while one of them just spun. They replaced the gasket, cover and all four bolts.

Baltobonneville · 07-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Personally, I'd just fix the ones that were stripped, but there's a logic in doing all of them while you're at it.

I had the cam cover leak fixed under warranty, so I haven't had it off myself yet. From what I've read on this forum, a combination of new seals under the screws, and a thorough cleaning followed by a very thin application of RTV sealant to the gasket would probably stop the seepage. You also have to make sure that the gasket is seated correctly.

It's annoying, but most people get the leakage stopped. For some, it takes several attempts. I'm going to have the cam cover off myself this season for the valve check, planning to replace the seals under the screws and use the existing gasket.

T100Mike · 07-12-2009, 01:45 PM

My Bonnie had the same leak. They fixed it under warranty but now I have noticed that I am getting some "seeping" out of the covers again. Barely any; just enough to make a line on my finger. I am going to ask my dealer to look at the cover again when I take my bike in for the 6000 mile maintenance next month. I have had the bike 11 months