Triumphrat

Captain Bert

This might explain how it works
One night when his charge was pretty high, Micro-Farad decided to seek out a cute coil, to let him discharge.

He picked up Milli-Amps and took her for a ride on his Mega-Cycle, around a series circuit, across the wheat stone bridge, down through the sine wave and stopped in a magnetic field by a flowing current.

Micro-Farad was attracted by Milli-Amps characteristic curves as soon as he had her fully charged on some electrolyte.

He excited her resistance to a minimum, laid her on the ground potential, raised her frequency and lowered her resistance. He pulled out his high voltage tube and inserted it in her socket connecting them in parallel, and began to short circuit her resistance shunt.

Fully excited Milli-Amps sighed; Ohm, Ohm, Micro, his tube operating at maximum E.M.F. and his field vibrating with current flow, caused his shunt to over heat. Micro-Farad cells rapidly discharged and rapidly drained of every electron. They fluxed on all night trying different connections and sockets until his magnet had a soft iron core and lost all his field strength.

Afterwards Milli-Amps tried self induction and damaged her solenoids.
With his battery charged Micro-Farad was unable to excite his field.
So they spent the rest of the night reversing their polarity and ended up blowing each others fuses.

Severeign

All sounds horribly familiar. My '07 Speedmaster will run through the summer without any troubles, but as soon as that temperature drop hits it's a lottery as to whether it'll start. And this isn't being left for a week or two between outings, I ride every day, all year round.

Recently took it to my usual mechanic to have it all checked out, new battery installed, everything charging as it should and yet still, 48 hours later, I'm having to grab the jump leads to get the damn thing started.

I love my bike, but if it comes down to having to remove the battery each time I stop somewhere to charge it I'm going to have to start thinking about moving on to something less temperamental!

timb

I have a '12 Bonneville that I purchased in April. The battery problem surfaced within the first two weeks. I lived with it (the engine would eventually start if I tried several times) but complained of the problem when I took the bike in for its first service in July. They tested the battery and charging system and said that all was OK, but their main tech who knows the most about the electricals was not in that week and I should bring it back when he was in. I never did take it back.
However, before I left the dealer, I had a long chat with the owner. Although he never admitted that he knew that this was a common problem I could see that he knew more about it than he was letting on. But - one thing he pointed out to me is the 'correct' starting procedure as outlined in the user manual.
This model has a three position choke knob. Pull out to the first click for starting above 77 degrees F, pull out to the second click for starting below 77 degrees F, and push all of the way in once the engine is running smoothly. All of this is regardless of engine temperature. You are supposed to do start with the choke even when the engine is hot.
Since talking to him I have followed this procedure and the starting has been flawless.
I've never seen a choke knob on a fuel injected vehicle before, so I find this strange. I'm not sure if it is really choking, or if it is just stepping up the idle speed. I don't see any electrical connections to the 'choke' mechanism, so I don't think it is communicating with the ECM. It may just be that it props the throttle plate open enough to take a lot of the intake vacuum loading off of engine, which makes it easier to turn over. Pulling the choke knob bumps the idle speed up to about 2000 RPM.
The bike is in the house for the winter now. I bought the shop manual for it, so I will try to find some time over the winter to investigate more fully.
I'll admit I was really bummed over this starting issue when it surfaced and considered selling the bike, but now I'm better with it. The official starting procedure seems to work even if it is a little rube goldberg.

Forchetto

Thanks Timb. I find myself continuously reminding people wirh EFI starting problems of the handbook procedures for starting. This is it:

• If the engine is cold, pull out the choke, noting the following: Above 25°C air temperature, pull out the choke to the first position. Below 25°C air temperature, pull out the
choke fully.

• If the engine is partly warm, pull out the choke to the first position.

• Leaving the throttle completely closed, push the starter button until the engine starts.


The "choke" control is really a fast idle device. More sophisticated EFI systems have a motorised ECU-controlled IACV (idle air control valve) that regulates the idle and cold starting air automatically. Ours doesn't. Instead the "choke" allows a measured small quantity of air past the throttle butterfly valve. It doesn't operate the valve as such, it opens a small bypass air duct that creates a sort of leak past the valve.

Severeign

Glad to hear that you've overcome the issue Timb & it's sound advice to return to the manual. Unfortunately following the correct starting procedure regarding the choke doesn't help when 12 hours after parking up I hit the start button only to hear a depressing click.
I'm now travelling with jump leads as standard!


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App

Forchetto

I do as well even though I've had no trouble at all so far. I made up a small set that can be carried under the seat like this:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-talk...ml#post2219875

chelmi92

Hi all
I am getting confused with the topic, I cannot find Ar the end the modification to wiring that allows temporary bypass of the ECU for starting the engine when battery is below 12,5V.....

I did note the mods proposed by Forchetto with a push button on the relay, but require removal of side cover...
I did follow the talkson the bike wiring to get read of the ECU, but couldn't find the final solution.

Believe it, near Paris in the same area, they are 3 of us suffering this issue !! And 2 of them got the tuning update done recently, without success
Thank you for your help and great talks.

Forchetto

It's on post number 26 of my push button mod thread:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-tech...ml#post1844049

LuckyCantrell13

I may be late on this but i wanted to add my 2 cents worth.

i have a 09' Bonnie with 12,xxx miles on it and have been getting this problem for awhile. Everywhere i go people love the Triumph then laugh when it wont start.

The bike may sit for a week at longest, and when i go to ride it starts up fine, after urban riding "bar hopping" a bit it goes through the cycle then "click".

solutions that have worked for me
1. push starting the bike
2. jumping it off a car (first try with the cabbles on for 15 seconds)
3. shorting the solenoid
4. replacing the battery (worked for a bit)
5. battery tender (dont always remember to hook it up)


in total i have had this problem happen while i was out 4 times now, luckily i was with other riders.

Forchetto

That "urban riding" might not be recharging the battery well enough, especially if low speeds and frequent stops are involved. Ensure your idle speed is around 1000rpm (Factory recommend 950-1050 rpm).

Lower than that and the alternator is not charging at traffic stops.

Your dealer should have handed you a copy of a written note from the Factory containing advice on that issue. The letter was attached to Technical Bulletin TN109 of May 2009.