Triumphrat

ohiorider · 08-03-2008, 11:33 PM

A good riding buddy of mine is about to trade or sell his R1150RT Beemer and get either a new 2009 Bonneville or a Ducati 1000GT (the retro model). He recently stopped at two Triumph/Ducati dealers, one in Ohio the other in Pennsylvania. Dealer A said they would charge approx $700/$750 for service every 7500 miles if the bike required any valve shim replacement. Dealer B said their typical maintenance charge for the same service would be approx $350 every 7500 miles. I'm thinking Dealer B is low-balling their price for Ducati service.

Am I off-base? Although I understand that Ducati has extended their valve check intervals, I've been led to believe that changing shims on the Desmo valve gear isn't nearly as simple as changing shims on our Bonnies, and is quite time-consuming. (I've done the Bonnie shims myself, and aside from removing and replacing camshafts, isn't horribly complex).

And both Tri/Duc dealers said for his type riding (15k per year/mixed interstate and two lane roads), the Ducati would be the better bike. I'm sure from a horsepower standpoint, this is true, perhaps from a standpoint of Bonnie vs Ducati suspension (stock) also. I'm somewhat biased, though, having ridden my 2003 T100 on a 5000 mile trip out West, and having put on 26,000 miles over the past 2 1/2 riding seasons. (Not sure either the Triumph or Ducati is the best choice as a replacement for an R1150RT for someone who uses their bike as an Interstate mileage eater).

My suggestion has been to find a good low mileage Bonnie or T100, maybe an 03-05, do the suspension and saddle improvements, (of course the rejet and TORs) and give it a try. If it doesn't work out, he can always sell the used Bonnie, and probably lose little or no $$. I think he'll get clobbered on the resale of a new Ducati 1000GT.

Sorry I'm rambling. Maybe you can sort out a few specific issues from my post.

Any Duc riders out there that can comment on this? Thanks.

Bob

BamBam · 08-04-2008, 01:38 AM

The valves on the air cooled 2V Ducatis are not that difficult to check/adjust. There is a specific technique, but it's not hard. The 4V engines are trickier I believe, and therefore a bit more expensive.
I wonder if both dealers were really quoting for the same service items? I could see a shop charging $700+ for a full service: belts, valves, fluids, EFI. I got a similar bill for my 2V Supersport.
But I would look hard at the dealer offering the lower price. Are they actually hitting all the service items? I can see a shop charging $350 just for valve adjustments, if there was extensive shimming required. However, maybe the cheaper dealer just has a great mechanic who breezes through the services quickly. Perhaps.
Prices do vary: Midwest Motorsport used to do Ducatis and their prices were on the high end. Crooked River have reasonable prices, and good technicians.

ohiorider · 08-04-2008, 05:50 AM

Thanks, BamBam.

Bob

biker7 · 08-04-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiorider

Thanks, BamBam.

Bob

I think most would agree, cost per mile, the Bonny is hard to beat. The GT1000 is one hell of a bike but would be well down on my list for a mile eater on the freeway. A Duc ST3 or 4 would be better for that....or a Triumph Sprint...each with wind protection. Comparing the GT1000 to the Bonny has been done in articles and on boards like this. The GT1000 is like a Bonny on steroids...a sport bike with retro look. Everything about it is about 30% more expensive than a Bonny including insurance. I like the GT1000 but it is quite a bit more money.
George

Lazyrider · 08-05-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamBam

I could see a shop charging $700+ for a full service: belts, valves, fluids, EFI. I got a similar bill for my 2V Supersport.

Are you kidding? That's an outrageous amount to pay for routine maintenance on a motorcycle. For that price, the original design engineer should be doing the job himself.

Jack

'08 Blue/White America

BamBam · 08-05-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyrider

Are you kidding? That's an outrageous amount to pay for routine maintenance on a motorcycle. For that price, the original design engineer should be doing the job himself.

Yes, it is a lot, and the reason I ended up doing most of the servicing on my Ducati myself. But the major service intervals do have a lot of labour intensive items to cover - going through all of them myself would have been 3 days work, if I had the tools and skill to do them.

KingOfFleece · 08-05-2008, 05:35 PM

Ducati-If you want a very high performance machine you gotta pay. Desmo valve trains are complex as is the knowledge and experience to work on them. It ain't no VW!

Kirkus51 · 08-05-2008, 07:51 PM

Question for me is are all Ducks desmos now? When I had an 860 gt it was not desmo. may the gt isn't/ I don't really know.

ohiorider · 08-05-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkus51

Question for me is are all Ducks desmos now? When I had an 860 gt it was not desmo. may the gt isn't/ I don't really know.

All Ducatis are desmo today. The major difference in complexity is whether the engine uses two valve or four valve heads. Kind of boggles the mind:
2 cylinders
8 valves
8 rockers to open valves
8 rockers to close valves
16 potential shims to check and replace when required (I think).

The Desmo system must work, their bikes have done quote well racing. But as I understand it, desmodromic valve actuation was an engineering response to cure the problems of valve float back in the late 1940s - early 1950s, as engine rpms began to rise faster than valve spring technology could handle. I believe one of the Mercedes race cars used desmodromic valve actuation. The Desmo approach was a way to eliminate the valve float problem.

In today's motorcycle world, it appears that four valve per cylinder engines designed using valves/valve springs running OHCs acting directly on valve tappets can spin up as high in the rpm range as the Ducati engines, although with the need to compress multiple valve springs several thousand times a minute.

To me, the Desmo is traditional, and perhaps the extra complexity adds exclusivity to the bike. After riding bikes for over 25 years, I don't question anyone's buying motivation.

Bob