Triumphrat

meloman · 02-15-2008

Hi gang, I'm an oldie biker but a newby on this forum. I've ridden for 45 years and owned 39 bikes. I currently ride a Buell Ulysses but have been lusting after the Scrambler since it was introduced. I've loved Triumphs since my first mind blowing test ride years ago on a new 1967 Bonneville TT but for whatever reason have never owned any British bikes.
I've only ridden the scrambler for a short test ride in the city with no curves, no fireroads so not a good test.
So I have some questions.
1. Any buell riders that have switched to scramblers ?
2. Anyone own both ?
3. I understand the fun factor that everyone talks about but what makes the scrambler more fun than a bonneville or thruxton when they're essentially the same bike with different pipes ?
4. Can anyone tell me objectively and preferably with experience why I would be crazy to give up the Uly for a scrambler ?
5. I've read and know about all the motor and suspension mods but have yet to read about anyone putting the scrambler on a diet. Has anyone taken any substantial weight off the bike and how was it done. To me performance consists of power as well as handling. Even just adequate power works better with a lighter bike.
Also, I'm a picture collector. Most of the scrambler pictures are of the bike parked on the street on in someone's backyard. Any dirty, muddy action pictures with character that you scrambler guys would like to post ?

GrandPaulZ · 02-15-2008

I think this post needs to move to the appropriate Hinkley section. I'll try to move it, but not sure if I have those omnipotent powers here...

rmak · 02-15-2008

Hello, Meloman!
Like you, I'm an old time rider who's owned a number of bikes in my lifetime. Since I picked up my Scrambler in December and have ridden it a total of 12 miles, I won't be able to give you a complete response, but I can give my opinion.

I've never owned a Ulysses, but I did have a BMW1200GS for a year or so and found it a joy to ride, but a bear at all other times. Riding it included a preparation ritual. It's bulky, heavy and high-seated. It was a stress and strain to move around. One thing I love about the modern Triumph classics is their accessibility and easy of use. It's the "jump on and go" experience that, for me, harkens back to bikes in the old days.

I also have a Bonneville, and there are differences between them and the Scrambler. Besides the 270 degree firing order of the Scramber (as opposed to the 360 Bonnie engine), the handling and ergonomics are quite different. Since you're shopping around, get a test ride on a Bonneville and feel the difference for yourself.

I asked the same weight question on this forum when I started working on my Bonnie. I don't believe you're going to find an easy solution for the weight issue. The suggestions made to me that made the most sense were aluminum wheels to reduce unsprung weight, and lighter aftermarket parts like shocks, etc. You can start cutting off frame parts if you want, but you can also leave the bike as it is and enjoy it for what it is. The low center of gravity and nice riding posture belies the bike's weight.

Would you be crazy to change? I don't know, the Uly is a cool bike that I checked out too. But if you are in lust, as I was, maybe your decision is already made.

M700R · 02-15-2008

Got my Scrambler about six weeks ago - but it was the dead of winter with lots of snow and ice - so I've only put about 270 miles on her. The Scrambler is no Buell. Power and acceleration don't compare to your 1200 cc hot-rod V-Twin. Adequate for me, but not mind blowing. Some of the guys have modified their Triumph twins for quite a bit of power - I've seen claims of 75 - 80 hp, and I think those bikes might not fare too badly in comparison to a stock Buell.

The Scrambler is a ton of fun to ride. I looked hard at the Buell and went with the Scrambler for several reasons, one of which was the comparatively low seat height and fairly low center of gravity. Makes it very nice to ride.

Sorry I don't have any "action" shots of me riding - nobody's been crazy enough to go out in the snow and ice with me yet... Here's a few that might get your interest. I find it does just fine on muddy dirt roads:

I suspect that with a few minor mods, it will do just fine on most dirt roads. It climbed the one in that last picture, from the Columbia River up onto the ridgeline real well, despite mud, snow and ice. Those photos were all taken in the past week or so now that the temps here in Washington have climbed into the 40's in the afternoon and the snow is melting. I like the no-fairing feel and look. I like the gearing. The stock tires do okay on the slick/muddy/snowy stuff. It cruises along fine on the pavement at 70 mph, then turns off onto the muddy dirt roads and continues to do just fine - although it's certainly no dirt bike. Too heavy to be a real dirt bike. Mudhen, Old Scratcher, Rhodie, Daveorally, and Orpheus have all posted some good offroad or dirt road photos with their Triumphs. Should be able to find 'em with a search.

Regards, Guy

Pim · 02-15-2008

Hi Meloman,

I will try to answer your question #3:

When I bought my Scrambler, I fitted the Triumph Off Road exhausts. They sound much louder than the Bonneville Off Road exhausts, so there is, soundwise, a huge difference between a Scrambler and a Bonnie.
Last week, my dealer removed the rejetting-thing. Ever since that day the satanic grin I used to have with my formal bike (Triumph Legend TT) is back! I don't know if the removal of the rejetting-thing (costed me around 100 Euro's) will make you forget your 1200cc Buell, but I never spent any money better than this engine update.

The Scrambler has less horse power compared to the Bonneville and Thruxton but has a much firmer torque. I win every traffic light sprint with ease when I am riding with my fellow Triumph friends. (all Bonneville guys)

666Bonneville · 02-15-2008

i like my scrambler because it is fun, nimble, and not a very common sight. it feels good to have a bike that the whole world hasn't seen.

for me, a buell, sportster, big twin, or any jap street bike is common sight. i like having something that sets me apart...........

that's why i bought in.

meloman · 02-15-2008

Thanks rmak, M700R, Pim and 666 Bonneville for all your thoughts and input and M700R for the pictures.
So to summarize things, it seems that the scrambler has the “grin factor” for the following reasons:
1. Looks cool and is unique on the road
2. Easy to jump on and ride due to lower seat height (compared to the Buell and GS)
3. Sounds better with TOR’s than other Triumphs and has more torque off the line.
4. Better ergonomics than Bonneville and Thruxton.
Now to correct and clarify a statement in my first post ( “for whatever reason I have never owned any British bikes”). Actually I do own a Thruxton but it is a salvage bike that I haven’t ridden yet though I have test ridden one once when they first came out. I bought it to fix up and sell and then along with the sale of it and my Buell I could buy a scrambler and put some $ back in the bank.
Now I know about the 270 vs the 360 crank difference and understand that in the dirt the power pulses of the 270 make the bike hook up better. However, on the street the difference should be negligible. I also know they sound a little different.
So my next question is:
Why wouldn’t it be a better idea to put high pipes, high bars, lower pegs and knobbies on the Thruxton to get the “look” and then drop a tooth on the countershaft sprocket to get a little more off the line power to compensate for the lower torque curve of the scrambler ?
Then theoretically I would have a scrambler with better front forks, bigger and better front brake, lighter wheels and more horsepower. Also the shorter wheelbase should handle better off road.
Am I missing something ? Would a stock scrambler still be better and if so, why?

Pim · 02-15-2008

I live in an area in The Netherlands with lots of curvy narrow roads. On these kind of roads the Scrambler's (low rev) torque comes in hand over the (high rev) power of the Thruxton.
See photo

I ride a lot with my girlfriend as a passenger so after testriding (with her on the buddy seat) the Bonnie, Thruxton and Scrambler my personal choice was made with ease: the Scrambler.
I must confess that I became 100% happy with the Scrambler after removing the air-rejetting stuff. My dealer also did 'something' with the carburators (I am no tech, sorry) and air filter and the Scrambler roars even more with lot's more power as the standard factory bike.

To my opinion it's a choice between torque and power. Take a test ride on a Scrambler... One minute on it will tell you more than 1000 words...

dave1068 · 02-15-2008

To throw a little curve to your Q, I had a scrambler and sold it to buy a bonne as its a smoother engine and a bit quicker on the top end. At times I like the Scrambler more as its a higher seat height (i'm tall) and just more fun to drive. Realistically, its not a bike to be taken off road unless its a wide fireroad as its about 500lbs.

Not sure if you want a more realistic Scrambler but i started another thread about the bmx g650 x-country which is a single, 650cc with the same HP as a scrambler 53, but only weighs about 325lbs. It has better componentry than the triumphs as well as a 3 yr warranty. It looks like a lot of fun to ride. i often think about buying it to use as an adv-type bike and keep the bonne for road use.

Check it out and you might like what you see,

Good luck

Dave-

meloman · 02-15-2008

Thanks again Pim for your input.

Dave 1068 it's interesting that you mention the BMW. A friend of mine just bought one last Friday in Wisconsin. The next day he put studded tires on it and went ice racing and kicked ass. He says it's the best off road bike he's ever owned. Absolutely loves it. But though it's dual purpose it's really more dirt oriented than street. It's also a solo ride, with comfort optional. He also owns a new Bonneville and a Suzuki DRZ-SM super motard. Some guys have all the good toys.

Still would like to hear from anyone about my Thruxton/Scrambler conversion question as well as from any former or present Ulysses owners who have Scrambler experience.