Triumphrat

Tiglath · 01-07-2008, 05:21 PM

I see how fond some people are to advertise the fact that they wear all their protective gear all the time. Yet, in many cases, when you see a picture of these people wearing said gear, you see them wearing things like black leather and a black helmet.

OK, ATGATT I get it, you are letting us know that you don't compromise when it comes to safety and that you know what "take care of yourself" means. But...

Have these people never heard that one of the most, if not the most, often given reasons why cars hit bikes is that the cager didn't see the bike?

The majority of drivers don't carry around the bike signature in their minds that produces an alert, like when a car -- or a deer -- gets too close for comfort.

There is a bumper sticker to the effect that loud pipes save lives, invariably stuck on some rolling thunder. I don't think it is necessary to shatter glass windows announcing your arrival in order to be safe, but surely it gets people's attention, especially harmless pedestrians. Cars these days have great noise insulation, or that some people drive with their stereo blasting. Some truck drivers hear nothing but the humongous engine of their rig.

Therefore, taking an uncompromising approach to safety has to include, I believe, making oneself positively visible. Two words: LIME GREEN.

I don't enjoy looking like a construction worker, but I look like one.

(Guess what... some people STILL don't see me. There is no antidote against those...)

Shirt, armor, warm layer if necessary, Kevlar layer, and FLOURESCENT LIME GREEN ANSI Class III jacket (FLMAC3J) on top, is what I wear. Its cheap vinyl but waterproof. Yellow helmet.

Some stylish jackets are quite visible in lime green but they also have styling black stripes and LESS LIME GREEN, and the reflecting area is not great. That is not uncompromising safety.

I have very nice leather and textile jackets but if I wear them they go under the FLMAC3J, which is totally lime green and has double stripes back front and sleeves of TWO-inch Scotchbrite reflector tape, not the puny one-inch or the puniest reflector seams found in more fashionable outfits. That is the meaning of uncompromising.

Style, fashion can compromise safety. I don't criticize people who prefer to look cool at all times, it's their choice, and to each his own, and some lime green (or orange) is better than none, but if one is going to advertise to the world that one is the ATGATT type, it may as well be:

All The Right Gear All The Time (ATRGATT)

BishRat · 01-07-2008, 06:03 PM

You are right... in fact you are absolutely right. The only way you can be safer, is to not start the bike and leave it in the garage.

ATGATT is good, and I understand the sense in your expansion to ATRGATT

We all do things we shouldn't, and somewhere along the way, we all make compromises. I will not ride without a helmet, boots or a jacket that affords some type of protection. While I'm not in favour of full freedom (I agree with compulsory helmet laws), we should be capable of making our own judgment calls along the way.

One of my heavy leather jackets has got pockets for body armour. Am I unsafe because I don't wear kevlar? To be as safe as possible, I would end up looking like a lime green Michelin man... Instantly seen (or not) and I'd bounce off anything if hit. And here's something I'll admit to (and I know you're all thinking it as well)... I don't want to ride around looking like the aforementioned Michelin man. On occasion, I like to wear my leather hooligan jacket, pudding bowl and goggles... I know it's not the safest gear in the world, but sometimes I accept the risk... it's all part of being a shallow style victim I guess

Don't get me wrong, I really do think you are right... but I've just been to the dentist, and I'm a little grumpy at the moment

Tiglath · 01-07-2008, 06:34 PM

Get better soon...

I have all the right gear but I am not the ATRGATT type. I take risks sometimes. One has to be safe but one has to be happy too; that's why my diet is not perfect and sometimes I ride with jeans and a three-quarter helmet... and rediscover my tank-mounted tach...

My point was about those who boast being the ATGATT-type yet make themselves hard to see. Wear black or colors that blend with traffic by all means, but if you croak about uncompromising safety as well, it will ring hollow or worse.

F4sSprintST · 01-07-2008, 06:41 PM

I don't believe florescent orange paint would make a difference

if they can't see your headlight, they aren't going to see a yellow helmet

I've looked drivers in the eyes and still had them pull out into me

Just ride like you are invisible, because you are

If you think the bright gear helps, more power to you, but I don't think those of us that wear black are at a disadvantage.

erikmustride · 01-07-2008, 07:23 PM

I wear a helmet all the time, and other gear as needed. ie. cold, rain, etc... if you wear all your gear, more power to you. I think the discomfort of all that gear can be just as bad as not paying attention on the road. The more I wear the less comfrtable I am, and it affects my flexability. I think the best thing for any rider is a defensive driving (riding?) course. Learn to look at least five car lengths ahead and learn to avoid trouble spots in traffic. Again, I don't care if people wear all that gear, I just wish people would leave me alone if I don't. That being said, i think you should get a discount on your insurance premiums for wearing that much riding gear.

Tiglath · 01-07-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4sSprintST

I don't believe florescent orange paint would make a difference

if they can't see your headlight, they aren't going to see a yellow helmet

I've looked drivers in the eyes and still had them pull out into me

Just ride like you are invisible, because you are

If you think the bright gear helps, more power to you, but I don't think those of us that wear black are at a disadvantage.

I have to disagree with that logic.

Nobody sees my headlight from the side or behind and they can see my yellow helmet and lime-green jacket.

I think it is illogical to imply that because some drivers seem to be completely blind, (1) they are blind all the time, and (2) the majority of drivers are like them. It seems to be the case with other drivers that in general it is a good thing to make yourself more noticeable to the report of their senses.

"Just ride like you are invisible" is ill advice. It is a proven fact that vehicles and people with fluorescent colors are involved in fewer accidents.

Please note that I said "fewer" and I did not say "no accidents." But if bright clothing gives you an substantial advantage, I'll take it any day, even if it is not a guarantee -- there are few guarantees in life.

Each piece of protective gear, the color of one's clothes and helmet, and all the other precautions one takes, keeping enough distance in front of you, braking for turns, etc., are part of the layered approach to safety, each layer adds an advantage and improves the odds. Better odds is all we can hope for the moment we get out of bed.

By the way did you notice the high number of people who die in bed? It ain't all that safe there...

Hamr Mark · 01-07-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

I've looked drivers in the eyes and still had them pull out into me

I wear a clear plastic f/f helmet, the driver and I looked right at each other...17:00 or so, clear eve, front light on, riding a Orange bike (like that makes a difference), I am the last in a 5 car train...#5 goes past, and he starts to back out.

Cars don't care about me, but I do. I now ride like NO-ONE can see me, regardless of time, weather, clothing etc...I look out for me, because I know the Buick at the corner won't.

So TIGLATH, I suspect we will be seeing pics of your new Bonnie painted to match your jacket? Because any other colour than lime green/red is just asking for trouble...(I wish I could photshop this lol)

erikmustride · 01-07-2008, 08:02 PM

HEAR HEAR Ham'r.
Let's not forget that at least part of the reason we were all attracted to bikes in the forst place is that they are dangerous. No amount of safety gear will make you as safe as you are in a car or truck. That is part of the element, and part of what makes them so gott-dang appealing. I actually feel safer, or at least more in control, on a bike than I do in my truck.

Tiglath · 01-07-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikmustride

I wear a helmet all the time, and other gear as needed. ie. cold, rain, etc... if you wear all your gear, more power to you. I think the discomfort of all that gear can be just as bad as not paying attention on the road. The more I wear the less comfrtable I am, and it affects my flexability. I think the best thing for any rider is a defensive driving (riding?) course. Learn to look at least five car lengths ahead and learn to avoid trouble spots in traffic. Again, I don't care if people wear all that gear, I just wish people would leave me alone if I don't. That being said, i think you should get a discount on your insurance premiums for wearing that much riding gear.

No problem here if you don't wear all the gear. It's a free country.

I don't either sometimes if I just have to go for a short trip. But I recognize it is a good habit to wear it all the time since accidents are caused by others at times and at unpredictable times.

I refer you to the title of this thread. If your gear holds you in a vice of discomfort you are not wearing the right gear.

I prefer to wear a Dainese Wave V-2 jacket, which is armor held by a strong net; it doesn't impede movement because it is articulated, and while not being completely unnoticeable to the wearer it allows for all and any movement you make be called to do to ride a bike. You don't need all that much flexibility when you ride a bike, anyway, unless you intend to do gymnastics at the same time, and the armor to protect you in that case has not yet been invented.

Baltobonneville · 01-07-2008, 08:15 PM

My riding buddy frequently wears his lime-green full-body outfit, when he doesn't have his racing leathers on. He's a very experienced rider, with race experience and three motorcycles in his garage. He knows what he's doing, he looks ridiculous on his red Ducati, and he doesn't care.

It's not for me, although I certainly appreciate what he's doing. He shattered his leg in a racing accident many years ago, so he knows firsthand what can happen.

I don't understand the whole "eye contact" thing. No one can see my eyes behind the face shield, and it's possible to "look" without seeing anything. There's more to vision than registering the image on the retina; the brain has to process it, and sometimes it doesn't. This applies to me too. "Ride as if you're invisible" strikes me as excellent advice, good to keep in mind.