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torque vs horsepower

65K views 699 replies 68 participants last post by  GySchmit 
#1 ·
For a non-gearhead, can anyone explain in terms of "feel" what the 54% increase in torque in the new T-120s will mean, compared to a similar increase in HP? And since we haven't seen any HP #'s, yet, could they actually drop in the T-120, as they have in the Street Twin? I've always thought my T-100 could use a little more oomph, and find this new motor intriguing.
 
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#2 ·
With more torque the bike will "feel" more powerful even though actual power is down. That much torque down low in the rev range will probably make doing power wheelies very easy. I'd be surprised if hp at the crank dropped in the t120 versus the t100 given the sizable increase in displacement.
 
#10 ·
Can't say I've ever had a four-banger, no. But I get the picture.
 
#11 ·
Both of those options sound painful.
 
#6 ·
Power is related to torque but a common explanation to help understand it is:

torque == acceleration

horsepower == speed

Most people's intuitive 'feel' for what is good performance is acceleration - the kick in the bum acceleration gives.

A high torque bike will quickly accelerate.

A high power bike will have a high top speed.

eg A high torque bike (might) out accelerate a higher power bike but eventually the higher power bike will reel it in and overtake it.

That is somewhat of a simplification and actual performance will depend on the actual torque/power/gear ratio values but hopefully helps get a feel for the concepts.
 
#12 ·
Most people's intuitive 'feel' for what is good performance is acceleration - the kick in the bum acceleration gives.

A high torque bike will quickly accelerate.

A high power bike will have a high top speed.

eg A high torque bike (might) out accelerate a higher power bike but eventually the higher power bike will reel it in and overtake it.

That is somewhat of a simplification and actual performance will depend on the actual torque/power/gear ratio values but hopefully helps get a feel for the concepts.
Great explanation. Makes me think the vast majority of riders, myself included, would value torque over hp. Up to a point.
 
#8 ·
Ya but , ya but ! Where would the fun be in that . :)
 
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#9 ·
torque is the force that gets you moving.Hp is the amount of torque you can hold on to at rpm.
A high torque low hp motor will jump hard in first gear but run out of steam when rpm gets higher.
A low torque high hp motor will be slower taking off in 1st gear but once it hits rpm it will haul ass and if you keep the rpms up through the gears it will walk away from a high torque low hp motor.
But if you have both high hp and high torque it will want to pull you off the seat taking off and scare you bad once it hits rpm.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Depends where and how you ride for the most part I guess . For myself I ride in cities ,towns rural back roads with twisties where the speed limits are about 50 mph . IM not looking to almost red line every shift in order to hit my bikes max HP # . So more torque in the mid rpm range will put a smile on my face . Not all of us are the same though . But yes triumph is likely betting on they got it right to please most people .
 
#23 ·
You know you bring up a good point here but what needs to be looked at is what is mid rpm range. what ever motor you are running it needs to be geared for the type of riding you do.In todays world of bikes 8500 rpm is not high rpm any more.so mid range on that would be 4750 rpm. On a motor that makes hp to only 7000 rpm mid range would be 3500 rpm. And so on. To have the same top end speed you can gear the 8500 rpm motor lower so it gets to its mid range very quick. The only time the higher torque lower rpm motor is best would be at low speeds and carrying heavy loads. once a bike is moving low speed torque never gets used very much.I ride with some guys that have big Harleys that have spent a lot of work and money in there motors. They are real quick leaving a stop light.
but once my bike hits 4500 rpm I pass them like they are sitting still. They have way more torque then my bike but don't have the hp.It is all in what you want in a bike.
 
#14 ·
I feel there are many misinterpretations on how torque and horsepower are related.

This question is usually asked in a tone which strongly suggests that these experts believe power and torque are somehow mutually exclusive.

In fact, the opposite is true, and you should be clear on these facts:

POWER (the rate of doing WORK) is dependent on TORQUE and RPM.
TORQUE and RPM are the MEASURED quantities of engine output.
POWER is CALCULATED from torque and RPM, by the following equation:

HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

From the seat of your pants, at lower rpm, a motor that generates more torque at lower rpm may be more responsive. But understand, that the higher horsepower motor will almost always be faster if geared properly.
 
#16 ·
I feel there are many misinterpretations on how torque and horsepower are related.

From the seat of your pants, at lower rpm, a motor that generates more torque at lower rpm may be more responsive. But understand, that the higher horsepower motor will almost always be faster if geared properly.
Out here on the bald Canadian prairie (just up from you, it turns out) I supposed I could max out speed once in a while. But I don't. Using your formula, what's your best guess on the max hp of the new 120s? Our old ones are around 67, I believe.
 
#15 ·
And of course not everyone is looking for or interested in faster .
 
#20 ·
Torque is the force you need to turn your head comming out off a hairpin to look where the yamaha r6 is who whas entering the same hairpin with you .....building up his hp starting from 7000 rpm till 17000 rpm, at the same moment you are already braking for the next ....?
 
#25 ·
HP , torque, weight , gearing ,the distance , etc. It all can get so completed . Take 1/4 mile times for example . It's possible to get smoked by a similar weight vehicle with lower HP but more torque. And the reverse as well . I believe HD 750 street twin pulls about the same 1/4 times as the 855 air cooled bonnie . I believe it has less HP and weighs about the same , nor sure if it has more torque though . I'm pretty sure it operates in a much lower rpm range though . Of course 1/4 times to be a good comparison need to be run by the same guys and averaged out over numerous runs . I'm not saying mighty HP is not going to rule the drag strip . Just saying that there can be grey areas depending on somethings such as gearing differences etc in bikes like the bonneville , HD 750 etc .there can be different angles and paths .if that makes any sence to anyone other than me ;)
 
#26 · (Edited)
might as well jump in on the fun....

another simple analogy. If a bike had 10 hp and 100 ft lbs of torque it would start it's acceleration quickly, but will not be able to hold that level of acceleration (lack of hp) as it approaches higher speeds.

in contrast, if the same bike had 100 hp and 10 ft lbs torque, it would NOT take off as quickly (lack of torque) but it would be very capable of holding a consistent level of acceleration as it approaches higher speeds. If they were both racing side by side the torque monster would win in a 100' race but will no longer be pulling hard at the top end whereas the hp monster is just getting started, and if the race continued to 1,000' the one with the higher hp would dominate and win. (this assumes all else is equal as it relates to gearing, tires, weather, rider, blah, blah, blah)

plain and simple.

so if you're looking to purchase a bike, you want a good balance of the two. It's all about ride-ability. Too much torque is no good for regular street riding, unless you plan on doing wheelies every time you take off from a stop light. and, too much HP is also not required unless you plan on doing triple digit speeds most of the time.

obviously, i'm exaggerating, but you get the picture.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Has anyone installed a NOS system on these twins
that may take care of the perceived lack of HP . I wonder how much NOS the new 1200 could handle .
 
#38 ·
Has anyone installed a NOS system on these twins...I wonder how much NOS the new 1200 could handle .
The 790/865 cranks break somewhere in the 150 to 200 RWHP range...at least that was how much Jojjie was putting down when he broke his on his turbo drag bike. The crank on his new motor is one off...

http://www.stabbarps-auto.com/welcome.html

Cheers,

--Rich
 
#29 ·
HP is about having a tripod with a pulley attached to it , a rope or cable and a horse to attach it to and a little over a 1/4 of a ton of weight to lift :)
 
#37 ·
And that's what I've always felt was missing just a tad on the T-100. Bought it for the style, and it's still fun to ride, don't get me wrong. Just lacking zip. And sound. Even with TORS pipes. Sounds like the new T-120 addresses both, plus the other annoying things about the old model, like the removal of the seat and the location of the ignition. Those would be my four beefs. All solved. The perfect bike for those of us of older vintage?
 
#32 ·
Yes that's pretty much it for me I have two trucks , a car ,my bike ,my sled and my ATV and couldn't tell you how much HP any of them have or ever looked
And only seen the Americas numbers on here a few times but not because I went looking for it . I purchased it new and never looked or asked about the HP .
 
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#33 ·
I think that is the best way to look at these new bikes, test them if you like it buy it if you don't like it, well, don't. I think this is why Triumph is holding back on releasing the numbers because they know it will put (some) people off, I probably will want to know the number but I'll be testing the bike if if it isn't 100% won't buy.

To me it's a bit like when a new top flight movie comes out, they always put documentaries on TV about how it was made I can't see the point in that I'd just spend my time looking out for special effects. When I watched Terminator 2 I thought Arnie was the bad guy until way into the film, was much better to find out that way.
 
#36 ·
Similar to the motogp bikes. Those bikes have over 250hp at their disposal. That much horsepower also brings up the torque numbers. This amount of torque, on the other hand, is actually a problem for them when it comes to exiting those tight corners. Too much torque can cause the rear to break free and lose traction. What do factory teams do to help manage it? They reduce the torque. At first they used to train their riders to never ride with full throttle but they weren't getting consistent results. They now program the ECU to create a "virtual powerband" that retards the amount of torque available. (oftentimes cutting it down to half) Horsepower on the top end is really what they're after. They need to maintain higher speeds/RPMs (up to 200mph) for the duration of the race.
 
#45 ·
From a couple of the reviews yesterday it appears they were quite happy with their new street twins and it's torque / hp combination . Just early days yet but sounding promising .
 
#47 · (Edited)
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