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Twins Talk Discussion of Hinckley Triumph Twin related matters and topics. Sponsored By: Throttle Mojo

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Old 02-27-2006, 06:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the explanation, Pete. Never had a bike with a FI and I sort of like playing with a choke.

I'm waiting for the Hayes (sp?) service manual to come out. The local Triumph service dept told me that the bonnie carbs are pretty bullet-proof and there is no need to know how to fix them. Many years ago when I rode a beemer a LOT, once in a while I cleaned a clog in the carbs. At least that is how I remember it.

Do you think there is a need to know how to work on the bonnie type carbs given the chance that something can go bad with them?
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Black-bonnie -

Any fuel metering instrument (carb or FI) will be suceptible to malfunction or damage from matter contained in the fuel. Modern systems are protected by filters, more so for FI because the small valves and nozzles are more sensetive to contaminants.
Carbs are no more than a collection of metering jets and a few valves. A sensible, systematic approach should allow anyone to strip and rebuild any carb. FI hardware needs to be assembled in a super-clean environment. Electronic controls are mostly completely unservicable.
I have carried out and witnessed repairs to carbs and points ignition systems using a variety of materials including super-glue, road dirt, condoms, rubber bands and electrical tape (essential!). I doubt whether any of these would have been possible with electronic systems.
I can appreciate that the modern electronic systems are more reliable, but at the cost of user adaptability. I can see a future in which we will be unable to change exhausts, airboxes, gear ratios, etc. because they will fall outside the parameters of the on board computer, which will then doubtless contatc the licensing authority to tell them your bike is no longer legal! Some car manufacturers already have systems which keep track of the engine behaviour of vehicles and contact the dealer when service is due. Scary stuff!

Pete.
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Old 02-27-2006, 08:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Make mine injected, FUEL INJECTED!

Triumph's fuel injection has been been recognized as offering darn near the smoothest and most seamless delivery of fuel in the motorcycle world! For some reason, it seems always to be mentioned in reviews of the new Triumphs.

I live at sea level, but some of the best riding can be had at elevated levels in the foothills. Spend a Little more time in the saddle, and you're in some gorgeous scenery at 8,000 feet. Go over the pass, and you end up at 12,000 feet! From the Central Valley of California, we do it all the time.......

Fuel injection adjusts accordingly, it's the best!

If there is any drawback, it's for the folk who like to constantly tinker with their machines changing pipes, messing with jetting, etc.

Yeah, time to get with the times......
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Pat and Pete, you both bring up some very good points and I’m learning. So I will get to know how to do some basic repairs to the carbs. Not good as you, Pete, but some basics.

Since I don’t see a day where I will be riding at very high elevations and carbs have been serving me good since my mileage is 50 mpg highway and I’m not looking for scary acceleration, I’m happy with what I have. I about go insane when my computer has electronic problems and I’ve had it happen to cars too, so just keeping things basic is ok by me.

Again, thanks for taking the time trying to inform others less knowledgeable.
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
On 2006-02-27 03:32, Pete_Twizz wrote:
T
Personally, I still like things that I can fix at the roadside with string and chewing gum!

Pete.
Amen to that
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Fuel Injection is great when it works well. On my 2002 955i Daytona it was never perfect. It was hard to ride around town smoothly as the on/off throttle response was jerky. It was also a bit wooly on a lightly opened throttle . On my 2004 Speed Triple the fuel injection was perfect no matter what the weather, altitude or situation.

Knowing Triumph the first years FI Bonneviles will probably have a pretty rough FI map to begin with but they should get better with time. How about a nice fuel injected 100HP Speed Twin
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If done correctly by Triumph, fuel injection should be fine. After riding BMWs with FI for 18 years, here's a few things I experienced:
a. the original K100 Series - mine was an '85 model with Bosch LE-Jetronic FI worked seamlessly. It utilized a mass air sensor, open loop system, that didn't care if you installed a different pipe, or even if you installed a turbo. It would compensate for it.
b. later Bosch Motronic FI systems used on the Boxer twins tended to 'hunt' when running in traffic at, say, 3000rpm in a lower gear. The magazines called it 'surging'. Rather distracting, and it took BMW several years to resolve.
c. Motronic systems were 'mapped' systems, and did not adjust fuel quantity based on readings from a mass flow meter, so if you made radical intake and exhaust changes, the system did not compensate for the better breathing, and probably ran lean. Most aftermarket exhaust manufacturers then began marketing exhaust systems that didn't require a new remapped ECU chip.
d. Some FI systems require smoother throttle input because, unlike with our Keihin carbs, there's no mechanical delay or buffer provided by the vacuum-operated slide. You make a slight change in throttle position, it instantly changes the amount of fuel injected into the engine. On some bikes, this translates into jerky operation.
e. Ironically, when BMW participated in the Paris-Dakar races with their factory GS bikes, some of them had the FI removed, and replaced with huge Bing CV carburetors.

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Old 02-27-2006, 06:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Fuel injection & catalictic converters & o2 sensors are thi thing of the future 07 We all know what happenned to VW & Porsche w the same combo I see air cooled engines becomming a thing of the past I now guess we all own classics!! I wont part w/ mine!!!!
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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How do you think this will effect the value of our carbed bikes?

and since no one else has said it yet.... I guess Triumph needs to lose a few pounds and is finally saying no to "carbs". :-D :hammer: kit: :roll:
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Well done system, mass air flow or mapped, will in the end be superior to carbs. Mapped systems may require new maps, either to fix flaws or compensate for tuning mods. Hey, that's a few minutes working on a laptop vs hours fiddling with pilot, main, and needles. The big issue is shops getting access to the ignition and FI modules (ECUs) to reprogram.

Ooooops, that voids the warranty
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