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Twins Talk Discussion of Hinckley Triumph Twin related matters and topics. Sponsored By: Throttle Mojo

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Great Brake Debate

Weíve all seen some the debates here on proper braking.

Did anyone happen to catch the current Cycle World issue where Mark Hoyer wrote about the Yamaha Champions Riding School?

A couple of things caught my eye. One, the school has students spend one of their on-track sessions using only rear brakes. The other (more significant) thing was a quote about how, in America, motorcyclists are trained to not brake in a turn for fear of standing the bike up. The instructors say itís wrong to teach this way Ė for future of the rider and the sport. The school teaches braking mid-corner and using a lot more rear brake than most people were taught to use by MSF and others.

Iíve always been a big proponent of rear braking and Iíve never shied away from a little clamping mid-turn if itís needed (front or rear). If done correctly, itís completely safe.

Iím curious of other opinions.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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People bad mouth a few tactics MSF teach, but remember they are focused on first time riders. Once I was safely out of their sight I started using my front brake lever with three fingers so I could manage the throttle simultaneously, but don't tell them.

There is no doubt that the rear brake is a useful tool, and can help or be misused like any tool. I'm pretty much to a place where I think of the front brake for stopping and the rear for managing speed in cornering, etc.

I know I use the rear too much when stopping for stop lights, etc. I lock it up way too much. I'm consciously working on being heavier on the front in that situation, and am moving to organic pads instead of sintered next change.

But going into corners it's all rear unless I need to drop 20 mph or something, and if I need to use anything in the corner it's definitely going to be rear.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think it comes down to new riders not knowing the appropriate amounts to brake. So maybe not braking in the turn gives you a better chance at making it then grabbing a handful of brake. Both having obvious perils. Most modern bikes have a linked braking system that applies both front and rear. I do my best not to brake in corners but a speed check sometimes needs to happen with a tap on the rear.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I use the front brake to scrub speed into the corner with throttle application being rolled on as the brake application is being reduced in the corner. I could be wrong on my execution of this technique, but this method was what Freddie Spencer developed in winning 3 world championships and is the state of the practice as far as I know.

Unlike what the track day schools teach, I do use the rear brake some in trail braking...keeps the bike settled better IMHO than just applying the front.

YMMV,

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Old 01-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieBlack View Post
People bad mouth a few tactics MSF teach, but remember they are focused on first time riders. Once I was safely out of their sight I started using my front brake lever with three fingers so I could manage the throttle simultaneously, but don't tell them.

There is no doubt that the rear brake is a useful tool, and can help or be misused like any tool. I'm pretty much to a place where I think of the front brake for stopping and the rear for managing speed in cornering, etc.

I know I use the rear too much when stopping for stop lights, etc. I lock it up way too much. I'm consciously working on being heavier on the front in that situation, and am moving to organic pads instead of sintered next change.

But going into corners it's all rear unless I need to drop 20 mph or something, and if I need to use anything in the corner it's definitely going to be rear.
I couldn't have stated it better. My experience exactly. As a consequence, I love my organic pads in back, as it has cured my tendency to lock the back up in emergency braking situations. Not sure if BB's reason is the same, but I believe my love of the back brake comes from growing up on dirt bikes. In the dirt, using the front is an art, and used only a fraction in comparison to the back. Just my experience. I love the front brake on the street, but I think in those emergencies, my youthful instinct takes over without forethought.

Re: 3 fingers? I got in trouble for that too. That is, until I pointed out that my hands are too small and my pinky won't reach!
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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2 fingers clutch and brake. Riding/ racing on dirt is a big advantage. If you aren't sliding, you aren't going fast. Trail braking into a corner, front and rear is a good thing. Really. You DO have to be aware of your surface. If you imagine strings everywhere, as the bike leans, it pulls up on the brakes, straightening, it pulls up on the throttle. Hard brakes leaned over, or hard throttle leaned over rarely works out well.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hello

Not sure if you can get the book "motorcycle roadcraft" in the US it is the bible of UK police riders and does have a lot of good info, although we drive on the wrong side of the road so I believe.

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