Triumphrat

StoneTriple · 07-12-2004, 08:34 PM

I've read before that the Speed Four was a design exercise by an Italian firm. I think it shows - it's smoother, with rounded curves - more feminine. Which, by the way, I find appealing. Bikes should have smooth, sensuous lines - not all this anime\stealth crap that is so popular now (Daytona 600, Yamaha R1, etc ). But I digress - My question is this;
What about the engine? Was it designed and manufactured in the UK? The bike has some Japanese parts and I'm OK with that. However, I don't want a Triumph badged Jap bike.

MickMaguire · 07-13-2004, 12:05 AM

The engine is a 100% hinckley UK designed and assembled product. Like all manufacturers Triumph buy component parts from different companies (many of them in Japan) but actually Triumphs contain more OEM produced parts than many other larger manufacturers.

You are right in that Numero Tre (the Italian Triumph concessionaires) did the original styling fro the speed four, their base being the TT600.

[ This message was edited by: MickMaguire on 2004-07-12 22:07 ]

07-13-2004, 03:36 AM

i can't say for sure, but what you might be thinking about, is even though the people who came up with the speed four, and called it the baby speed, were italian, but they just stripped down a tt600, so they didn't really come up with any of the lines or change anything, they just took off the plastics, and stuck on speed triple headlights and handlebars, basically exactly what triumph did to the daytona, so unless i'm wrong and you're talking about something different, the lines are still british, it was just the idea of making it naked that was italian

keithu · 07-13-2004, 03:39 AM

But what did Numero Tre do, really? All they did was remove the fairing from a TT600 and paint the engine black. Big whoop. The tail section bodywork, seat, tank, frame, and engine on the S4 are identical to the TT600 components. The little "bikini" fairing and headlights were clearly inspired by the Speed Triple.

If an Italian ripped the fenders and hood off a Ford F150 would we call it "sexy Italian styling?"

-KeithU

StoneTriple · 07-13-2004, 04:57 AM

I'm aware of the bike's British styling origins. Several Triumphs have become very Jap looking as of late. Thankfully the Speed Four is not one of them. It is, in fact, one of the very few that I would even consider buying.

My concern(and question) was the origin of the engine. It doesn't have any Triumph markings on it that I could see when I looked closely at the dealer - cast in it like the Speed Triple or badged on like some of the other models. I was only concerned that there may be a reason for this. MickMaguire answered my question. Thanks Mick.

Diego · 07-13-2004, 07:13 PM

>>> If an Italian ripped the fenders and hood off a Ford F150 would we call it "sexy Italian styling?" >>>

If it made it look better to enough folks, yes. ;-)

The Brits have long had a fascination with things Italian. (Perhaps because the climate is so far removed from that of the Isles?) The motor vehicle makers, in particular, seem to enjoy what Italian stylists do with their basic concepts. Some of the most memorable English sports cars passed through Italian design studios to one extent or another...cars like the MGB, MG Midget/A-H Sprite, and especially the Triumph Spitfire and GT6, to name models from "my" era. Just as with the S4, they stood out as something apart from the everyday crowd.

(And also like the S4, their powerplants were very thoroughly British, too.)

punisher · 07-16-2004, 12:01 PM

The Italians are definetely no strangers to good design. Guigaro, has made some of the most beautiful cars in the world. Now about reliable engines! I think that the brits have that market cornered with standards like rolls royce. The marriage of British mechanics, and Italian design seems like a good match.

MickMaguire · 07-19-2004, 05:37 PM

Quote:

On 2004-07-13 17:13, Diego wrote:
Some of the most memorable English sports cars passed through Italian design studios to one extent or another...cars like the MGB, MG Midget/A-H Sprite,

The only one of that 3 to have Italian styling was the MGBGT (not the MGB). Pininfarina (Ferrari) did the GT conversion for BMC, the Midget was a joint design between MG at Abingdon and Healey at Warwick (Healey did the front MG did the back - I kid you not!), the original (frogeye) Sprite was designed by Gerry Coker at Healey without help from MG.

Good points Diego but bad examples :wink: :-D

Diego · 07-20-2004, 12:21 AM

>>> ...the Midget was a joint design between MG at Abingdon and Healey at Warwick (Healey did the front MG did the back - I kid you not!) >>>

Fascinating! I always took the Sprite/Midget to be the most English looking of the lot (with 1973 being the pinnacle of perfection, if you could get one that was built between the endless labor disputes), but I never suspected that gorgeous envelope to be a multi-factory committee effort. Thanks for the insight and correction.

BTW, I used the Midget/Sprite designation (or should that be contracted to Spridget? Mite?) specifically to exclude the earlier non-MG Bugeye, which clearly couldn't have come from anywhere but jolly old England.

Though this is dreadfully off topic...is it a certainty that Pininfarina had nothing to do with the regular MGB design? I thought I recalled some Leyland literature in the early Seventies implying that they did, but my memory may not be totally accurate on that.

At least I can be confident of the Michelloti connection with three of the four Triumph autos I owned... the Poltergeist, an aged TR-4 which made its presence known through clanks and rattles... my sometimes beloved Spitfire (aka the Whitened Sepulchre, beautiful to behold but full of dead cars' parts)... the charismatic, enigmatic, sometimes TARDIS-like GT6 (long story, that).

For all its suspension and steering frailties, the latter's unstoppable straight-six mill was its saving grace. Catastrophic coolant loss and no way to get out of traffic for most of a mile?--no problem. Alternator dies, battery voltage eventually slides off scale, headlamps fade to infrared, and still miles to go?--no problem. Distributor rotor bearings suddenly disintegrate leaving the shaft wobbling loosely, and there is no replacement, new or used, for six weeks?--nudge the breaker assembly to where the flopping cam smacks the points open enough of the time, then no problem. The folks at Hinkley, having now unlocked the door to well nigh limitless displacement on two wheels, would do well to emulate that powerplant for the inevitable Rocket 6. ;-)

[ This message was edited by: Diego on 2004-07-22 00:51 ]

ClaCla · 07-20-2004, 11:23 AM

The first Baby Speed was a Carlo Talamo design.
He was the italian dealer for HD (with Numero UNO), Triumph (with Numero TRE), and Rolls Royce (with GIALLO).
Unfortunately he died last year in a car accident but he first had the TRUXTON concept also.

The first baby Speed was a TT600 without body and with the S3 front light, but with a straight handelbar (like cross).

For the 2003 in Italy (and only in Italy) the S4 was called Baby Speed because Carlo didn't want to change HIS name. Only in 2004, when he was no more dealer, triumph decided to change name also in Italy.

Bye