Triumphrat

MadMark · 07-06-2004, 12:10 PM

Just saw an article in Sport Bike magazine about upshifting without using the clutch. Tried it out on a long ride on this last Sunday and found it a heckuva lot quicker on acceleration, but occasionally hitting a false neutral between 4th and 5th.
Does anyone have any input on the pro's and con's of this practice? Will the transmission wear out quicker?
Thanks to all for any input.
Mark

Will · 07-06-2004, 01:55 PM

I don't think it will wear out quicker. All a clutch does is unload the transmission to let it shift from one gear to the next. As long as you do a clutchless shift properly, you should be OK.

ferrus · 07-09-2004, 04:57 PM

I too have wondered about the clutchless upshifts and assume that there is an appropriate technique but I've never heard what that is.

Would someone care to illuminate me?

-Nathan

MadMark · 07-09-2004, 05:08 PM

My understanding from reading the article in Sport Rider is basically accelerate and when you need to shift just roll off slightly upshift and then roll it back on. Needs to be done smoothly and quickly. Don't try to accelerate until you have done the shift or you're going to get a loud and not so good clunk!
Will,
Is this correct?

sangsters · 07-09-2004, 06:52 PM

Quote:

On 2004-07-09 15:08, MadMark wrote:
My understanding from reading the article in Sport Rider is basically accelerate and when you need to shift just roll off slightly upshift and then roll it back on. Needs to be done smoothly and quickly. Don't try to accelerate until you have done the shift or you're going to get a loud and not so good clunk!
Will,
Is this correct?

That tracks with my understanding. Basically the tranny/engine should not be under load when you bang the shift. So, theoretically, your accelerating in third gear, ease of the throttle so the engine is working below its "drive" point and snick the shifter up....

Hope to figure this out this weekend.

Will · 07-09-2004, 07:48 PM

It is really pretty easy. What you do is preload the shift lever with your toe. When you want to shift, you just roll off and the lever will pop up and you shift. That is about it. How much you roll off depends on how hard you are riding. If you are just poking along, it doesn't take much. If you really have a hoof into it, you might have to roll off a lot more. It is almost like blipping the throttle for downshifts only in reverse. You roll right back on. It may be a little jerky at first, but you will get a feel for it pretty fast. If your bikes are anything like mine, they will like a well executed clutchless shift better than using the clutch. The one shift you shouldn't try until you get it down is the 1-2 upshift.

07-10-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

On 2004-07-09 17:48, Will wrote:
It is really pretty easy. What you do is preload the shift lever with your toe. When you want to shift, you just roll off and the lever will pop up and you shift. That is about it. How much you roll off depends on how hard you are riding. If you are just poking along, it doesn't take much. If you really have a hoof into it, you might have to roll off a lot more. It is almost like blipping the throttle for downshifts only in reverse. You roll right back on. It may be a little jerky at first, but you will get a feel for it pretty fast. If your bikes are anything like mine, they will like a well executed clutchless shift better than using the clutch. The one shift you shouldn't try until you get it down is the 1-2 upshift.

Don't keep the shifter preloaded (force on it) unless you are going to shift as it can wear out the shift forks. Only apply force when you a going to shift.

Will · 07-10-2004, 09:46 PM

Good point- and also just put a little pressure on it. It isn't like you are trying to yank the gearbox into the next gear. If you do it right, it almost feels like the gearbox sucks itself into the next gear. I hope that makes sense.

07-11-2004, 04:22 AM

I maybe hijacking this topic, but could someone describe the sequence of events for 'blipping' the throttle when downshifting. As for upshifting, i've found the comments useful and will be having a go today.
Thanks

07-11-2004, 07:19 AM

johnnydc

You blip the throttle to get the revs in the lower gear right for the road speed you were doing when you started the gear-change. Because the engine & road revs are matched, it allows you to release the clutch much sooner and have the bike under full control for longer.

I presume you know that blipping on down-changes does not let you do them clutchless! Well actually if you do want to take the mechanical risk of clutchless down-changes [I do sometimes :wink: ] you have to blip the throttle or skid the bike/blow the gearbox/crash.

IMHO to learn how much & how quickly to blip the throttle get to a particular (slow) speed say 50 in 4th then shut the throttle fully & run down to 30. then repeat it on the same bit of road but in 3rd gear. Repeat the exercise in 3rd & and in 4th until you know have an ear for the difference in revs. Then go from 50 in 4th shut the throttle & as the revs drop pull the clutch blip the revs up to the right level for that road speed in 3rd. Let the clutch out sooner than you usually do (but gently).

If the bike lurches forward use less revs next time, if it stands on its nose use more revs next time. Once you have 4th to 3rd right try it with 5th to 4th then a different road speed & there you go.

That is not the way I learnt and, if you have no pride there is a quicker better way! :clown:
You know the old step through Honda C90 & ST monkey bike range? Well on those if you move the gear lever it lifts & drops the clutch - very sharply. Borrow one of those & practice fast gear-changes 3,2,1 & back, on & off road. On these bikes you have little control of the clutch and the gears are widely spread so you have to blip it on down changes or it revs its guts out!!

If anyone else knows a better way to learn then I bow to your experience.

If you don't already blip on down-changes it is a bit of a learning step so good luck

Jon G