Triumphrat

badS4 · 05-12-2006

Hi guys/gals. I've been lurking around here for close to a year, figured it was time to speak up. First let me say you guys are a bunch of characters. But you knew that already :wink: I've had my speed four (yellow=fast enough for me) for about a year and a half and it is definitely been a kick a** bike. Last weekend was my first track day...wow! Wish i could do that every day. Guess that's why they say "welcome to the addiction." Anyway, i have some questions for the technically-minded among us.
Context: after a track day that thankfully resulted in zero damage to the bike, the drain bolt slammed into the lip of the trailer when i was loading it up and cracked the oil pan right through...yeah, it was interesting. now i need a new one/used one/repair and thinking of doing the work myself. So, my questions are

1) do the headers need to come off to replace the oil pan?
2) anyone know a source of used triumph parts in the USA?
3) is replacement of the pan a reasonable DIY job?
4) would it be ok to get the pan repaired/re-welded instead? (I'm thinking no because the crack is a full circle surrounding the drain bolt...will I be able to torque the bolt post-repair?)

The new pan alone is $210 from mr. dealer, and labor is quoted as 1.75 hrs. As you realize, I'm not really into that. So DIY is definitely preferable. We'll see what happens. My apologies to everyone for the long first post. Thanks for your help in advance, & keep rockin.

matt

[ This message was edited by: badS4 on 2006-05-12 09:58 ]

Will · 05-12-2006

No problem on the long first post. Congratulations on becoming a fellow track addict!

The oil pan might be a bit hard to come by as a used part, I dont' know. I do know that Bent Bike in Lynnwood, Washington had one, since that is where I took the blown motor from my 2001. Since you are in Philadelphia, you would have to get it shipped, but that shouldn't be too bad relative. It would be worth checking, since I don't think that is a high demand used part. Otherwise, I would probably try a JB Weld repair or get it welded. I think it is probably cast aluminum, so it could be repaired, but I don't know how strong the weld would be. It would probably be adequate for torquing down the drain plug. If you are worried about it, you could try the repair, torque the plug, and see what happens.

And yes, you do need to remove the exhaust headers, since they are one piece from the front of the motor to the exhaust can, as I recall.

rustbucket · 05-12-2006

I would think having it welded would be the best course. I lot of people are hesitant to use welded parts, but the oil pan, and transmission on my car are both welded, and they've held for several years now.

The oil pan isn't structural, doesn't undergo stresses during riding, and if the weld doesn't hold tourquing the drain bolt, the guy/gal who welded it ought to find a new profession!

The only question would be what the oil pan is made out of. On most cars they're steel, but on a bike, and given your description of the damage, I'd guess it's alulminum.

Anyway - gl with the fix

. I know how hellish seemingly simple repairs can become due to part replacement costs, so I certainly feel for you. I spent $97 on a headlight lens a few weeks ago! :evil:

badS4 · 05-12-2006

Thanks Will & Rustbucket for the replies. Will, they don't call you Team Owner for nothing! Rustbucket, good to know those welded parts haven't caused any problems--like you said, it's not a stressed part. I'll call that place in Washington and price getting the part of Will's RIP TT, and in the mean time find a welder and price the repair. The fun begins...Rust, is that $97 headlight lens for the S4 (i'm guessing not for the XS)?? either way, holy #*&%!

And yeah, I think I'm officially a track addict. One day was all it took... Now to figure out how to pay for more... It's just like they told us in health class!

matt

doodledog · 05-12-2006

Dont know if this helps but have you thought of trying a cheap bodge first using something like Araldite or weld stuff, I only ask as its not a stressed part and if it dont work you aint lost anything, I worked on a race bike a few years ago and a guy, (not me honest) dropped a bolt into the bottom end of a Suzuki, when the motor was turned over the big end punched it through the bottom casing, old mechanic patched the piece back in with Araldite epoxy worked well for the whole season! Only a thought but it will take reasonable torque tough stuff. :wink:

Will · 05-12-2006

JB Weld is a kind of epoxy. I have used it to fix parts like that before- namely the stator cover when I came off during a track day and ground a hole in it. It stayed on the bike like that for another 10K miles or more.

badS4 · 05-13-2006

So I talked to someone at a race shop in DE that does a lot of welding & race bike building (he might have been the welder himself, I'm not sure), and he said a JB fix would hold oil but might not hold the drain bolt well. I am a little skeptical of this, seeing as the bolt doesn't need much torque, but then I'm not a welder. He also said if I do a JB weld first, screw up, and send it to him, it's another $20 or so to get rid of the botched JB job. He quoted around $80 for the fix (assuming no JB weld removal).
I ordered the the other parts necessary for the fix (sump gasket, drain bolt, crush washer, according to local triumph shop) and I'm going to call a few other welders on Monday to see if I can find a better estimate for the fix. Have to admit I'm a bit afraid of doing a lousy JB job and then having an "oil failure" cause big damage to the engine.
Will, that Washington place must have sold your old TT--no oil pan there! Thanks for the tip, though. And thanks guys for all the advice. I'll let y'all know how it pans out.

matt

WHAT · 05-13-2006

Quote:

On 2006-05-13 11:43, badS4 wrote:
I'll let y'all know how it pans out.

matt

:hammer: :jest:

Jwilly · 05-13-2006

Welcome to the other side badS4. With that said, I personally would find a local machine shop to take it to. I work as a Millwright and you would not believe the repairs that we have our local shop do for us. They know more about repairing metals then anyone. That's their business. You can be sure that if a decent machine shop does the repair you won't have trouble with the torquing of the plug. My 2 cents.

badS4 · 05-13-2006

hey WHAT--cheers mate

Jwilly--Thanks for the idea! I looked up some local welders but didn't really know if I was barking up the right tree. Machine shop sounds like an easy, convenient solution. So how do I spot a decent one? is one that works on car engines OK? (that's the only one I know of off hand).
Also, got the pan off today. Had to move the radiator a bit and remove the headers as per Will's advice. Anyone know what the plastic thing in the oil pan is (plastic piece with a little metal screen) and how to put it back right?

matt