Triumphrat

tommyj999 · 02-19-2010, 02:49 PM

Hi Everybody I'm Doctor Nick

No I'm not really Doctor Nick but I do wish a hearty hello.

I'm new to the site and see it as the only way to hopefully getting an answer to my ever so irritating, simple and yet mind boggling problem.

I have an (alleged) 2002 TT 600 with a snip over 8k on the clock, the bike has full service history and was purchased from an employee of the main Triumph plant in Leicster (England).

I say alleged as I know that from 2002 the air intake nozzles were colour coded and mine has black nozzles despite the bike being silver.

The previous owner also took it up on him self to swap the standard TT headers and cams for those from a Speed 4, after collecting the bike from him following it's visit to the factory I was assured the bike had the correct tune/map and was runnning better than ever, a short ride proved other wise as the bike cuts out when coming to rest at a junction and is an ansolute bitch to start hot and cold.

I decided I would investigate and no more than 5 minutes in I found the bike runs sweet as a nut with no air box but refuses to function correctly with the big black lump of plastic attached, tried it with no filter in and still runs like a bag of spanners.

Please help me as my car has finally **** the bed and died after covering 230k!! Any advice or suggestions will be gratefully recieved and I have the weekend to try any and all suggestions, how ever if your suggestions completely destroys the bike I will cry like a baby and may just have to poke a small child in the eye with a blunt stick.

Many thanks for reading my post and offering advice.

Cheers
Tom

Raynewb · 02-19-2010, 04:45 PM

Hi Tommy,
My 2005 TT has the cold start problem which I am trying to get to the bottom of and I was thinking of getting this dealer tool. http://dealertool.web.officelive.com/default.htm
I seen it on ebay and the feedback is all very good. It may be your answer to diagnose your problems.
By the way I know they stopped making the TT in 2003 but mine was first registered in Feb 2005.
wish you luck.
Ray

tommyj999 · 02-19-2010, 05:22 PM

Just checked the link and knowing that the TT runs a Sagem ECU it would not be of any benefit as I fear the problem lies in the throttle bodies, and the site states that Sagem models do not allow adjustment of the trottle bodies.

A colleague has suggested a Power Commander as this will allow full and detailed adjustment through the rev range.

BombFactory · 02-19-2010, 09:48 PM

TT600 and Speed Four throttle bodies are adjustable.

I don't recommend piling aftermarket parts onto the engine management system when it won't run under its stock format. You should figure out how to get it to run as designed before using bolt on improvements.

It sounds like there is a possible issue with the air temp sensor. You say it runs fine with the airbox off, which means the air temp sensor is not in use then, or at least not in accurate use if you left it plugged in but laying on the engine. Running the engine with the air filter removed didn't help, so it doesn't sound like the fuel map is too rich. That leaves a few possibilities.

I recommend having a dealership tell you what map is in fact being run, and having them ensure that the CO setting is adjusted correctly. It may even be worth having the throttle bodies checked/balanced. I don't know why the previous owner went to S4 cams, but they are a different grind than TT600 cams. An S4 map will probably run much better than a TT600 map, and the CO setting makes a big difference on starting and idling problems. Rather than doing guess work on your own, I think the wisest step is to make sure you know what is in the ECM.

tommyj999 · 02-20-2010, 05:37 AM

Thanks Bombfactory

I have found out that the bike is running an S4 map and that when the bike was rebuilt by Triumph it was running as it should be and all values and perameters of all sensors were spot on.

I did fail to mention that when I collected the bike after the work it sat for about 2 months as I had injured my hand and was unable to ride, after my first short journey I noticed a nice collection of oil all over the toe of my left boot and some dripping from the off side engine casing. When I removed the air box there was some oil round the inlets and in the air box which I cleaned up and on the several test rides while trying to get her running the problem has not re-occured.

Would oil on the air sensor have a huge impact, I'm just about to head off to my local dealer to pick thier brains and collect my colour coded air intake nozzles. I will see if they have a sensor in stock and if they do I shall give it a try, I've had the bike for 6 months and it's run properly for about 4 days, I just wanna get some miles done and enjoy having the bike, it's done about 2000 miles since I took ownership and about 1800 have been in the back of the a van!

BombFactory · 02-20-2010, 09:05 AM

So you did have the ECM map read? Would you happen to know what the map number is that is installed? If you've never personally had the system looked over by a dealership, I still recommend doing so to ensure the map and CO are correct.

I wouldn't buy an air temp sensor, as you don't know that the sensor is shot. Oil in the airbox is a sign of a bad centrifugal breather seal, which causes oil to sneak by and get into the intake. That can cause issues with the barometric readings of the ECM and with the IACV if oil happens to get into the tubes that lead from the airbox to the ECM and to the IACV. It may be worth checking the airbox again and blowing out the IACV vacuum tubes and ECM barometer tube to see if that helps. If oil appears in the airbox again, you'll want to change the breather seal.

Will · 02-20-2010, 01:06 PM

It sure sounds frustrating, since the bike will be a joy once it's running right.

As Bomb points out, oil in the airbox makes a mess which causes seemingly unrelated running problems. As long as you are figuring out the problem, it's worthwhile to make sure the oil problem doesn't happen again. Replacing the centrifugal breather valve (on top of the engine at the other end of the crankcase vent hose) might be in order. If the bike has oil in the airbox, chance are it went down on the right side at one point or another.

As far as the rocket launchers, they are interchangeable, so having black ones or color coded ones isn't an indication of much except maybe having been changed at some time in the past. If the bike was dropped, the plastic might be newer than the bike, and there's nothing to stop a person from putting a different year of plastic on the bike. My 2001 had 2002 plastic on it for most of it's life, since I picked up some 2002 plastic really cheap after my bike was backed over by a truck. I kept the 2001 plastic for track days, so the bike sometimes had color matched rocket launchers, and it sometimes wore black ones. It was still a 2001 bike.

Another thing to remember is a Triumph employee can buy a special order bike in any color combination of Triumph colors. There are some oddities floating around out there because of this, and your bike may be one of them.

Good luck with it. It sounds like it's giving you a far bigger pain in the neck than either of the TT600s I owned gave me, and it's too bad, since they are so much fun when they are running properly.

tommyj999 · 02-20-2010, 03:07 PM

OK, quick update.

After much head scratching and foul language I decided to take the following steps.

Adjust the butterfly/throttle rail by 1000nth of an inch to allow a tiny bit more air flow at idle. Bike ran beautifully but still cut out.

Poke and prod a few things, scratch head, poke and prod some more, scratch bum, check for air leaks, have a cup of tea.

Try to start bike with no joy, shout, swear and scream, check battery with multimeter, find battery is shot, go to local bike shop, get new battery at a cost £50, install new battery, fire bike up.

Bike runs a treat, take for 30 - 40 mile test run (freeze nuts off), bike did not cut out once and idles fantastically at around 11 - 12k when hot (80 - 90 degrees C).
I have noticed some more oil so wil investigate further 2moro.

Can anyone suggest a good site for schematics or diagrams of the bikes guts as I'm not entirely sure which parts are being refered too as the possible cause of the oil leak.

Many thanks for all the advice so far, hopefully with your help I will have running superbly very soon.

ntmid8or · 02-20-2010, 04:25 PM

www.bikebandit.com is the easiest one I know of.

tommyj999 · 02-20-2010, 04:50 PM

A quick look has revealed there is NO oil in the breather hose to the fuel pressure regulator & ECM but there is in the IACV hose and the breather hose.
Looks like I need to change the seal in the IACV, is this a major job or something I should be able to do on my own?

I found a complete manual and have downloaded it so I can now fully understand the termanology used by all you very helpful people.

Bike is running now just this oil issue to resolve now.

Many thanks to all those who have helped so far.